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"These Are the First Military Bases Whose Confederate Names" Topic


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Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2021 4:20 p.m. PST

…Could Be Changed

"The military is starting its review to rename bases or other assets that commemorate the Confederate States of America, or people who willingly served with the Confederacy, by looking at 10 Army forts.

Starting this summer and continuing into the fall, a commission tasked with renaming these facilities will visit and consider Fort Bragg, North Carolina; Fort Rucker, Alabama; Fort Benning and Fort Gordon, Georgia; Fort Hood, Texas; Fort Polk, Louisiana; and four locations in Virginia, including Fort A.P. Hill, Fort Belvoir, Fort Lee and Fort Pickett, Retired Navy Adm. Michelle Howard, who chairs the commission, said in a news conference Friday…."
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Armand

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2021 5:00 p.m. PST

Let the games begin

Although to be fair I never got why anyone would name a base after Braxton Bragg or John Bell Hood

HMS Exeter22 May 2021 5:15 p.m. PST

I wonder what would happen if Google maps announced they would update their systems when and if their costs were covered by the feds.God help the ADC people.

Wackmole9 Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2021 5:38 p.m. PST

Go with Fort #1, Fort #2, etc.,etc. No military leader will past Wonk Inspection. Renaming Ships because it was a Confederate's victory is silly.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian22 May 2021 5:40 p.m. PST

Won't miss them. They were mostly named to placate state politicians decades after the ACW.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2021 5:58 p.m. PST

As for Bragg…
Shouldn't such an important base at least be named for a competent commander?

Wackmole9 Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2021 6:11 p.m. PST

So EIC Bill

You will never forgive or forget, unlike the Men who actually fought the war. Once your start these Historical witch-hunts they never stop.

gamershs Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2021 6:38 p.m. PST

I do not agree with the confederate position but over 200,000 AMERICANS (confederate) died for it. The men who were honored fought for their country and if Americans of their time thought to honor them what right do we have to take away that honor. The Wokies will never be satisfied until they control all aspects of life.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2021 6:54 p.m. PST

Oh, knock it off with "the wokies".
You're embarrassing yourself.

machinehead Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2021 7:11 p.m. PST

I was born in Fort Bragg, wonder what I should put down as place of birth after the name change.

Disco Joe22 May 2021 7:20 p.m. PST

I think this is getting ridiculous changing everything to placate a certain part of society. Get over it people.

rmaker22 May 2021 7:51 p.m. PST

Reality check. Zachary Polk was NOT a Confederate general, having did in 1850 while in office as US President.

machinehead Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2021 8:18 p.m. PST

rmaker, "It was named in honor of the Right Reverend Leonidas Polk, the first Episcopal Bishop of the Diocese of Louisiana (subsequently a leader of the breakaway Protestant Episcopal Church in the Confederate States of America), and a Confederate general in the American Civil War." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Polk

Personal logo doc mcb Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2021 8:29 p.m. PST

Hood commanded the Texas Brigade, best unit in ANV, and it is fitting that a base in Texas carry his name. He was unsuited to army comamnd but an excellent brigade and division commander.

Guroburov22 May 2021 8:32 p.m. PST

I don't know why we'd keep the names of traitors for any of our bases. Just because racists of that age couldn't let go of the fact they rebelled against the legitimate government and lost doesn't mean we have to keep the names.

Bunkermeister Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2021 9:02 p.m. PST

The soldiers of the Confederacy were loyal to their native states which they saw as their homeland. No different than Native Americans who fought for their homeland against the United States. Naming US military bases was a way to honor their memory, valor, and self sacrifice and help to heal the wounds of the war.
These bases have carried these names for so long they are historical places in their own right. Perhaps we should re-name New York because at the time the English participated in slavery?
Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

Guroburov22 May 2021 9:38 p.m. PST

Native Americans fought against a foreign power, the U.S. invading their lands. That's a far cry from Confederates who rebelled against their own government. While the naming of the bases was a gesture to honor their losses, it's a false equivalence to say we change the name of a state. Even if they participated in slavery.

Personal logo Grelber Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2021 9:55 p.m. PST

I would never have thought of renaming the ten bases but when the issue came up, I went over the list of bases. My criteria was that the person had to have served in the United States military in wartime and had to have accepted the demise of slavery after the Civil War. The result was to retain some names and get rid of others.
Perhaps the strangest case was General Henry Benning, a member of Congress before the war. He protested the use of conscription by the Confederacy, without which the was would probably have ended a year or two earlier. I don't see why former Confederate states would like to name a base after him.
Then, there's Leonidas K. Polk, who graduated from West Point and quit the military five months later to enter seminary. Modern protocol calls for graduates to remain in the military for four years. The USA certainly didn't get much of a return on the investment they made in his training.
On the other hand, Lee and Bragg as captains had been heroes of the war with Mexico and tried to help the nation heal after the Civil War. I would keep their names on the bases, though perhaps stressing that the bases are named after Captains Lee and Bragg, not Generals Lee and Bragg.
Hood, as pointed out, was associated with Texas before and during the Civil War and lived in Louisiana after the was. I think it would be great if Louisiana or Texas named a bridge over the Mississippi after Hood, or Texas named a freeway after him. I just don't think his services to the United States justify naming a US military base after him.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian22 May 2021 11:35 p.m. PST

You will never forgive or forget, unlike the Men who actually fought the war.

I have no animus. One of my family members was named States Rights Price. grin I just don't see the point in honoring Confederate generals, then or now, in federal projects.

Naming US military bases was a way to honor their memory, valor, and self sacrifice and help to heal the wounds of the war.

I don't believe that's factually the case. It was too long after the war. It was just naming things after 'favorite sons' of the particular state where the government wanted to build something.

Swampking23 May 2021 1:41 a.m. PST

Why is this topic allowed on TMP? It seems to have nothing to do with miniature gaming (along with a few other more recent Tango posts) and more to do with politics and the current wave of collective lunacy that is engulfing American society.

Having said that – why leave it up to the generals to rename bases? If the US military wants to truly reflect current American society and its attitudes, why not rename bases after cultural icons, like Sir 'I Like Big Butts' Mix-A-Lot or that ode to current American feminist empowerment – "WAP"? I guess that song would be great for the parts of bases where female recruits (and those that identify as 'female', lest we forget) would be housed and trained – "WAP Training Platoon #1, 2, etc., "WAP Dorm #1, etc.", "WAP Lt.", "WAP Lt. Col.", etc.

Heck, go ahead and waste millions of dollars renaming bases (along with the consequent renaming of letterheads, websites and other bureaucratic nonsense) + institute 'sensitivity training' throughout all of America's armed forces.

I'm sure the new 'sensitive' and ideologically-pure military will perform well against the Chinese, Iranians, Russians or Taliban.

alan in canberra23 May 2021 3:38 a.m. PST

So, how do you learn from history if you pretend it never happened…..

Cleburne186323 May 2021 3:41 a.m. PST

Other than changing stationary for those directly involved, this isn't going to affect anybody's lives.

Mako2323 May 2021 4:19 a.m. PST

I was born in Ft. Bragg, does that mean they will change my Birth Certificate to Fayetteville NC???

dBerczerk23 May 2021 4:54 a.m. PST

I wonder who the lucky devil is who will be awarded the contract to produce and erect all the new signs for these bases, and remove the existing signs.

Once removed, will all the old signs become highly-prized and sought-after pieces of military memorabilia?

America truly is the "land of opportunity" especially for those with political connections.

mildbill23 May 2021 5:58 a.m. PST

Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it, first time as tragity and the second time as farce. As far as Bell and Hood go, the Union should erect monuments to their leadership in shortening the war.

Battle Phlox23 May 2021 7:25 a.m. PST

This is the ethnic cleansing of white people.

Personal logo Der Alte Fritz Sponsoring Member of TMP23 May 2021 8:49 a.m. PST

Weren't the "traitors " all pardoned at the end of the war? If you were pardoned that still make you a traitor? Interesting question.

I don't have a dog in this hunt, just curious about the issue.

williamb23 May 2021 9:04 a.m. PST

The definition of pardoned is that the person is relieved of the some or all of the legal consequences of their action(s) not that they didn't commit said actions.

torokchar Supporting Member of TMP23 May 2021 10:07 a.m. PST

As a Yankee and retired Army I never understood why these bases were named after the losing side. I would propose Fort Hood TX be re-named Fort Audie Murphy TX – and something similar for Bragg, Gordon, and Benning. I just hope they do not go the politically correct/woke/diversity route on the renaming process.

Perris070723 May 2021 10:27 a.m. PST

George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Hancock, and Ben Franklin were all traitors too. If you look at the Declaration of Independence it becomes very apparent that many southerners believed that they were doing their "duty" in throwing off a "tyrannical" federal government yoke, just as northerners believed that they were doing their "duty" in preserving the Union.

Legion 423 May 2021 11:01 a.m. PST

I just hope they do not go the politically correct/woke/diversity route on the renaming process.
BINGO !!!! 👍👍 Hopefully they will be after at least military or POTUS, etc.


I'll really be interested to see what names eventually they do replace them with. Spent a lot of time at Benning & Bragg a long time ago … Never really thought about it too much who the post was named after. Save to know many were CSA.

As most Vets will probably agree … we were pretty busy doing Army stuff, etc.

Heck, go ahead and waste millions of dollars renaming bases (along with the consequent renaming of letterheads, websites and other bureaucratic nonsense) + institute 'sensitivity training' throughout all of America's armed forces.

I'm sure the new 'sensitive' and ideologically-pure military will perform well against the Chinese, Iranians, Russians or Taliban.

Bingo !!!! Yes, because all their forces have sensitivity training too ! They are generally a very nice bunch of guys !

Again way back when when I served '79-'90. We really were too busy to care, etc. No one even mentioned it as far as I can remember … old fart

E.g. when doing a jump at Benning, while waiting to board the aircraft. No one said," Hey do you know this fort is named after a CSA Gen.? "

Or at Ft. Sherman, the CZ, none of the troops from the South, said they were not going to train here. Cause it was named after a Union Gen that destroyed a lot of the CSA, towns, villages, etc. Over a hundred years ago …

😏 Just say'n …

Garand23 May 2021 11:50 a.m. PST

George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Hancock, and Ben Franklin were all traitors too. If you look at the Declaration of Independence it becomes very apparent that many southerners believed that they were doing their "duty" in throwing off a "tyrannical" federal government yoke, just as northerners believed that they were doing their "duty" in preserving the Union.

When the British start naming bases after George Washigton, we can discuss the appropriateness of that. But we are talking about US bases, & the US won the Revoultionary War. It does not matter that from the British perspective they are traitors. we won & we get to keep these people as American Heroes.

Damon.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP23 May 2021 2:52 p.m. PST

How about Fort Benedict Arnold as a name change?

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP23 May 2021 2:56 p.m. PST

As for Leonidas Polk, he was a lousy general too. For some reason, being a Bishop made him special. He did try to intrigue against and undermine Bragg, so he had that much going for him.

HMS Exeter23 May 2021 4:57 p.m. PST

@John the OFM

+1 on Arnold. If you make a list of everything he did FOR the American Colonies, he'd have had to traitor up like 3 times before we had reason to get pissed.

rmaker23 May 2021 5:41 p.m. PST

My point on Fort Polk is that it doesn't need a full name change, just replace "Leonidas K." with "Zachary".

Same thing works for Fort Lee. Paint over "Robert E." and paint in "Henry". Or, if you're clueless "Charles Augustus".

arealdeadone23 May 2021 5:47 p.m. PST

we get to keep these people as American Heroes.

Except the woke crowd is also targeting the Founding Fathers as "nasty male white heteronormative racists". They've even targeted Abe Lincoln and Ulysses S Grant despite both fighting to stop slavery (and Teddy Roosevelt in New York for apparently not doing enough)! Here in Australia Captain James Cook gets attacked and demonized as some sort of genocidal colonial overlord when he was merely an explorer who sought to expand human knowledge.

The culture war seeks to demonise the whole past and make it something to be ashamed of.

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP23 May 2021 6:43 p.m. PST

Well said arealeadone.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian23 May 2021 7:22 p.m. PST

I was born in Ft. Bragg, does that mean they will change my Birth Certificate to Fayetteville NC???

It will be as if you never existed. grin

Why is this topic allowed on TMP? It seems to have nothing to do with miniature gaming (along with a few other more recent Tango posts) and more to do with politics and the current wave of collective lunacy that is engulfing American society.

It's history, and history is part of historical miniature wargaming.

Zephyr123 May 2021 9:03 p.m. PST

"I just hope they do not go the politically correct/woke/diversity route on the renaming process."

A better option is to just rename the bases every 5-10 years (determined by the highest bidder.) Happens to sports stadiums all the time. Gov't gets cash, the sponsor massages their vanity, people who don't like it can organize to bid the next time around & rename it whatever they like (if they win.)
Who wouldn't like to see Nike Naval Base, or Coca-Cola Army base… ;-)

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP24 May 2021 12:04 a.m. PST

Can people who lived there vote for this…?


Armand

Jcfrog Supporting Member of TMP24 May 2021 1:21 a.m. PST

Your country is getting more and more crazy. Spreading that crap, I hope we will soon put a full stop to the rot.
Keep your traditions.

Btw I have an inclusive name for TX: Fort Santa Ana.

Garand24 May 2021 4:03 a.m. PST

Except the woke crowd is also targeting the Founding Fathers as "nasty male white heteronormative racists". They've even targeted Abe Lincoln and Ulysses S Grant despite both fighting to stop slavery (and Teddy Roosevelt in New York for apparently not doing enough)! Here in Australia Captain James Cook gets attacked and demonized as some sort of genocidal colonial overlord when he was merely an explorer who sought to expand human knowledge.

Where are you getting news about this? As a card-carrying leftie this is the first I have ever heard of this. Kind of thinking that this is getting amplified in the "anti-woke" echo chamber.

Damon.

Oddball24 May 2021 6:07 a.m. PST

What is that sound?

Oh, it is the fabric of American heritage being ripped apart.

Torn into smaller and smaller pieces.

Tic, Tic, Tic, hear the clock, "United" States?

jedburgh24 May 2021 6:55 a.m. PST

Waiting for an independent Scotland so we can rename Fort's Augustus, George & William. What about those U.S tanks like Stuart, Jackson and Lee?

Oddball24 May 2021 7:30 a.m. PST

"US tanks like Stuart, Jackson and Lee?"

Easy

We just change all the history books, and viola!

All is woke, everyone is happy and history is scrubbed.

Not hard.

95th Division Supporting Member of TMP24 May 2021 7:40 a.m. PST

"Where are you getting news about this? As a card-carrying leftie this is the first I have ever heard of this. Kind of thinking that this is getting amplified in the "anti-woke" echo chamber."

No, not really. Woke idiots in the Peoples Republic of California (I think San Francisco) toppled a statue of Grant.

Legion 424 May 2021 8:10 a.m. PST

rmaker … very good point … but that would be too easy and logical. Not a lot of that going around today …

Well said arealeadone.
Ditto !

It will be as if you never existed.
Remember what Orwell said in 1984, etc.

"The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history."
― George Orwell

"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."
― George Orwell, 1984

Sound familiar based on the words & actions from a small but vocal group of US society ?

It's history, and history is part of historical miniature wargaming.
Oh that is just crazy talk Bill !!! evil grin

jcfrog –

Your country is getting more and more crazy. Spreading that crap, I hope we will soon put a full stop to the rot.
Keep your traditions.
Bingo !

Oddball & 95th Div. +1 👍👍🎖🎖

rmaker24 May 2021 8:17 a.m. PST

Mako23, there are plenty of people whose birth certificates cite places that have been either renamed or simply don't exist anymore. They get along just fine.

Legion 424 May 2021 8:45 a.m. PST

Maybe we could name them after Disney & Warner Bro Characters ? E.g. Ft. Micky Mouse, Ft. Daffy Duck, etc. But knowing what is going on today, that would offend someone, e.g. PETA ?

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