"Iran Is Seeking Weapons Of Mass Destruction" Topic

"Iran is looking to develop weapons of mass destruction and source materials from Europe, a German intelligence report said.

Tehran denies it wants a nuclear weapon and is attending talks in Vienna aimed at restoring the limits on its nuclear activity that it agreed to in 2015.

But the report by Bavaria's Office for the Protection of the Constitution names Iran as one of several countries, along with North Korea and Syria, seeking to develop a stock of destructive weapons…"
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Armand

No brown stuff Sherlock,

Tally Ho!

What a surprise.

Who'da thought.

Oh, it's tuesday again, then?
Older News about German intel on Iran on FoxNews

A bit of those reports is probably some prettying up of German secret services.
We don't admit it because everyone would laugh, but we still would love to be the sixth eye.

I already asked myself some time ago which kind of industries some of the better educated refugees from Syria with academic background prefer to work for in Germany.
And for which 'company' abroad.
Article about the possibility of refugees spying in Germany – The Jerusalem Post

Those Germans don't miss a trick, do they?

I'll tell you.

And they're literally everywhere over here.

Creepy.

Sometimes I think I've become one of them.
But that can't be, or can it?

This report brought to you by Captain Obvious.

A bunch of lies and absurdities.

The only obvious thing here is the lack of critical thinking.

I agree with the above.

Their ballistic missiles, and ballistic missile development program, in addition to their nuke program and 50% uranium enrichment processing aren't for delivering pizzas to all points around the globe, in under 30 minutes or less.

(smile)

Armand

And how many countries have ballistic missiles?
How many countries have nuclear facilities able to enrichment process?
You will find a long list.
Please, avoid demagogic reasoning.

Do you know which is the only country that have used all kind of weapons of mass destruction (nukes, massive terror bombings, chemical weapons) causing millions of people dead?

The answer is easy: the United States of America.

So I repeat: the only obvious thing here is the lack of critical thinking.

Yea, until the US used the A-bomb things were so much better under Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. It was Western democracies which stood against these totalitarian regimes.

Iran cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons. It's as plain as simple as that. If it gets them, their primary target is Israel. Never Again.

Yea, until the US used the A-bomb things were so much better under Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. It was Western democracies which stood against there totalitarian regimes.

Demagogic reasoning again. The real fact is that millions of people have been killed by the Americans using weapons of mass destruction.

And after the WWII? The same actions by the US, or worse: massive terror bombings, chemical weapons, invasions, support to criminal dictators, support to terrorist groups and paramilitaries, and so on.

So please, avoid American propaganda.

Iran cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons. It's as plain as simple as that. If it gets them, their primary target is Israel. Never Again.

Israel has nuclear weapons, its primary target is Iran. It is as plain and simple as that. It is a shame. Never Again.

The last thing any fundamentalist theocracy like Iran needs it to get Nukes … period. There should be no question about that. With nukes it is a 0 – Sum game. A game no sane individual wants to play.

the only obvious thing here is the lack of critical thinking.

No in reality there is no "critical thinking" required in this case. They don't need Nukes … again … period.

This is not an intellectual academic, theoretical, class room, arm chair discussion, etc. There is no "equality" concept here. Many nations have Nukes. And yes we all know the USA is the only one to use them. But if one had to guess who would be next to use a Nuke. Again … a fundamentalist theocracy with has a radical unit within their military, i.e. the IRGC … No way should they even get close to Nukes.

I just don't see what is so hard to understand about that … Of course I was a soldier in my long passed youth for over a decade on active duty. I think more in black or white … not gray when it comes to this sort of topic. And yes the world is still a danger place. To think otherwise is just plain dangerous … That is the reality … period …

The real fact is that millions of people have been killed by the Americans using weapons of mass destruction.

Other than 2 the two A-bombs dropped on Japan to end WWII. What WMDs did the US use ? But yes no doubt millions have been killed by the US after WWII. But that was all conventional. No Nukes, Bugs or Gas. Note: HE and Napalm are not WMDs.

I dont belive Iran would first use nuclear bomb, at least because then they would be nuked. It was same story with North Korea, every one talked about NK nuclear attack but it seems that after they obtained nuclear bomb things cooled down. That would probably be the same scenario with Iran. And after all Israel have nuclear bombs and they didnt used them so far

North Korea are Stalinists, not a theocracy. The difference is that the mullahs think that they will enter paradise when they start nuclear war whereas Kim knows he will just be dead.

That is 100% correct USAF. That is the big difference … The Iranians are a theocracy where some there believe if they kill infidels[that is most of us BTW] they go to Paradise. Now do we risk that there are enough in Iran that think otherwise ? I say no … as I said … it's 0-Sum game with Nukes.

Un does not want to go to paradise. He likes things just the way they are. And he wants to stay alive …

The same goes for Putin, the PRC/CCP, etc., etc.

Pakistan only has nukes for MAD with India. But they have a number of fundamentalists in their Gov't and nation. But still I think they won't use them on anyone but India …

Rachel … lol … you are funny. Avoid American propaganda so you can preach Russian propaganda?

Can you show us proof of these millions the US have killed with WMDs ?

Other than 2 the two A-bombs dropped on Japan to end WWII. What WMDs did the US use ? But yes no doubt millions have been killed by the US after WWII. But that was all conventional. No Nukes, Bugs or Gas. Note: HE and Napalm are not WMDs.

Massive use of aerial bombings (Japan 1944-45; Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia 1965-70), with hundreds of planes and hundreds thousands of tons of boms, is a weapon of mass destruction.
Massive chemical weapons were dropped on Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. They have caused massive atrocities (direct killings and diseases for decades).

The difference is that the mullahs think that they will enter paradise when they start nuclear war whereas Kim knows he will just be dead.

Do you think the "mullahs" believe that they will enter paradise when they start nuclear war?
Another Western absurdity. This is the typical lack of knowledge about Islamic religion. The typical bunch of distortions and misconceptions based on complete ignorance about Islam. It is the disgusting consequence of American (lack) of education.

By the way, they are ayatollahs, not mullahs.

And Iran is not a theocracy in a Western meaning. Iranian political system is a complex one, and it comprises all branches of the Iranian society, not just religious authorities.

Avoid American propaganda so you can preach Russian propaganda?

I am not interested in Russian Propaganda. I am not Russian. I am an European jew who despise any kind of propaganda, including European one.

Can you show us proof of these millions the US have killed with WMDs ?

Please, study History. You will find many examples.

Now, as any educated person of any nationality or, since it was invoked for presumably odd reasons, religion, might look up before raising his voice at the agora, the term "weapon of mass destruction" has a "colorful" history and is quite fuzzy.
One may have a look at Weapon of mass destruction on Wikipedia
Amusingly, it was a US University in 2003 that found the term problematic because it can be easily misused.
Banished Word List from the Lake Superior UNiversity on Webarchive. org
Ts, ts, ts, must have been the

the disgusting consequence of American (lack) of education

as you say.

By the way, Russia is transcontinental and therefore part of Europe, just saying.

And did you know, two World Wars, two totalitarian ideologies plus one mass extermination and a handfull of minor offenses in the first half of the last century were more or less completely of European origin?
Probably because of its wealth of educated people.

But just out of curiosity, would you care to elaborate what exactly your religion has to do with it?

Oh, and both 'Mullahs' and 'Ayatollahs' may or may not think to immanentize the Echaton with some nukes would be fun, because both terms are used in the Iranian clergy, as you also could have looked up here.
Mullah on Wikipedia
Ayatollah on Wikipedia

Of course the probability for an Ayatollah to get the opportunity is higher.
‌

"It is the disgusting consequence of American (lack) of education."

Careful, your prejudice is showing. Assuming that all Americans are the same is like assuming all Iranians are the same.

Massive use of aerial bombings (Japan 1944-45; Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia 1965-70), with hundreds of planes and hundreds thousands of tons of boms, is a weapon of mass destruction.

No it is not, you are making up a narrative to fit you agenda. That is the norm today from many on the Left, etc. Again HE & Napalm are conventional weapons … not WMDs. That is the way I was thought in the US Army. I'll take their word over your bias.

Massive chemical weapons were dropped on Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. They have caused massive atrocities (direct killings and diseases for decades).

You mean Agent Orange ? That is not considered a Chemical Weapon like VX Nerve Agent, Mustard Gas, etc. Agent Orange is a defoliant. Not Chemical weapon designed to use on humans. But yes none the less it did effect both the Vietnamese/SE Asians & even our own forces. I know a few Vets who are suffering from it's effects. Yes in did some effect on the Vietnamese/SE Asians/locals, however, many were the "enemy" and their supporters. That would be collateral damage. Which happens in warfare. That is a fact … It's war …
Again like many currently from the Left, change terms to fit their narrative and agenda. Even go as far as revisionist history. That is clear to me …

Do you think the "mullahs" believe that they will enter paradise when they start nuclear war?
Another Western absurdity. This is the typical lack of knowledge about Islamic religion. The typical bunch of distortions and misconceptions based on complete ignorance about Islam. It is the disgusting consequence of American (lack) of education.

Are you willing to risk that ? Again Nukes are 0-Sum game … some don't/won't/refuse to get that.

As far as lack of education … Today is seems many academics, intellectuals, Left, Libs, etc., are not in the business of education. But Re-education, changing history, reality, etc. to fit a skewed narrative, agenda, etc. The enemies of the US love this. They couldn't done a better job is they did it themselves. I along with others believe they did. Money laundering/filtering, etc., thru various organizations, groups, etc., to those in the USA that what to destroy it. Or more likely to turn in into a socialists/Marxist, etc.

Please, study History. You will find many examples.

No I think you should … again yes, after WWII, millions were killed by US weapons. None were WMDs, i.e. Nukes, Bio, Chem. But by conventional weapons. You may need to study the difference. Unless again skewed comments shows the predilection of some to tell a story to fit their narrative/agenda. Which is in itself skewed/inaccurate, IMO.

Again my decade in the US ARMY Infantry as an Officer, on active duty '79-'90. I like many were trained in Nuclear, Biological, Chemical Defense. Plus I was trained as a Atomic Demolitions Missions Officer as a 1LT in the 101. There were only two of us in the Bn. So opposed to many whose comments are skewed and inaccurate, I've got a pretty good working knowledge of these aspects of warfare. Along with a lot of history study. I.e. Not revisionist history …

Of course one can believe as they wish … some still think the world is flat and/or only 6000 years old. Oh yes, a few even believe Satan made Dino bones to confuse, etc., Christians, etc.🦖🦕

Arjuna +1 You ware spot on … 👍👍

Careful, your prejudice is showing. Assuming that all Americans are the same is like assuming all Iranians are the same.

BINGO ! I have found with some, you are allowed to believe what you want to believe … as long as it is the same as what they believe. If not you are a number of things including uneducated, racist[one of their favorite cards], white supremacist, etc., etc.

By the way, Russia is transcontinental and therefore part of Europe, just saying

.

And? Russian geography is irrelevant to this discussion.

And did you know, two World Wars, two totalitarian ideologies plus one mass extermination and a handfull of minor offenses in the first half of the last century were more or less completely of European origin?
Probably because of its wealth of educated people.

Have you read carefully my previous post? I wrote: I am an European jew who despise any kind of propaganda, including European one.
I am not especially proud of European education either.

But just out of curiosity, would you care to elaborate what exactly your religion has to do with it?

My religion is not the issue here. If you want to use religious arguments you should have real knowledge about religions. And you should use serious and academic sources (specific bibliography) instead of stereotypical distortions and misconceptions. So, you should avoid popular absurdities and tabloids. Wikipedia is not a reliable source either. It is very limited and superficial. Maybe it is useful for children or teenagers at school.

Oh, and both 'Mullahs' and 'Ayatollahs' may or may not think to immanentize the Echaton with some nukes would be fun, because both terms are used in the Iranian clergy, as you also could have looked up here.

If you had a basic knowledge about the current Shia school of thought that predominates in Iran, you would realize that Mullahs and Ayatollahs are very different things.

This forum is devoted to wargames and some military/political issues related to wargames. People here should avoid writing absurdities and fallacies about religions

Careful, your prejudice is showing. Assuming that all Americans are the same is like assuming all Iranians are the same.

I never wrote that all American people are ignorant. Most Americans have little knowledge about foreign countries and cultures, and full of misconceptions and distortions. Many people here have a very bad opinion about the American Education System, and they mention it continuously. So, it is not just my opinion. It is not just my prejudice. Many Americans here share it.

No it is not, you are making up a narrative to fit you agenda.

Well, if you think that 900.000 tons of bombs do not cause massive destruction, you probably have a basic cognitive problem. Maybe you prefer dictionary definitions. I prefer real facts: atrocities.

You mean Agent Orange ? That is not considered a Chemical Weapon like VX Nerve Agent, Mustard Gas, etc. Agent Orange is a defoliant. Not Chemical weapon designed to use on humans.

Those Chemical weapons (defoliant) have caused: direct deaths, many kinds of mortal diseases, cancer and malformations. Their effects have destroyed agricultural land and natural forest. They have caused death, poverty and malnutrition for decades. In short, they have caused hundreds of thousands of victims. These are facts, real facts, and not theoretical definitions. So, those chemical agents, used massively, were weapons of mass destruction.

I do not need any "agenda". I dislike hypocrisy, immorality and fanatical nationalism. I dislike people who think that the "bad boys" always come from a foreign country. It would be more honest to recognize your own sins before accusing other people.

Well, if you think that 900.000 tons of bombs do not cause massive destruction, you probably have a basic cognitive problem. Maybe you prefer dictionary definitions. I prefer real facts: atrocities.

Again you are making up your own definitions which seems to be a trend with the SJW, etc., types currently. I don't have a cognitive problem but that may be something you may suffer from. IMO you have a skewed outlook/unrealistic thought process. Not everything that occurs in war in an atrocity.

Those Chemical weapons (defoliant) have caused: direct deaths, many kinds of mortal diseases, cancer and malformations. Their effects have destroyed agricultural land and natural forest. They have caused death, poverty and malnutrition for decades. In short, they have caused hundreds of thousands of victims. These are facts, real facts, and not theoretical definitions. So, those chemical agents, used massively, were weapons of mass destruction.

I know all of that about Agent Orange. And yes many died from it. But again you are making up your own definitions to fit your narrative that the USA is bad, etc.

I do know this the world would be a much darker place if the USA did not go to WWI, WWII, and Korea. People much worse than the USA we tyrants and need to be stopped. The USA and it allies did that. Would you like a world dominated by the likes of Hitler, Tojo, Stalin or even Mao ?

I dislike hypocrisy, immorality and fanatical nationalism. I dislike people who think that the "bad boys" always come from a foreign country. It would be more honest to recognize your own sins before accusing other people.

I don't think the bad guys are only from a foreign country. But I do believe that threats to my homeland need to be addressed. Hypocrisy, immorality and fanatical nationalism are again the words used by those don't see the reality of the situation. Again, the world is a very dangerous place. Will you and those who think like you stop these threats by talking about it? And indoctrinate those who don't know any better?

I recognize the USA is not without sin/blood on it's hands. But so is the rest of the world. It is a matter of survival … E.g. Those locals in SE Asia were proxies for the worldwide Communist movement/threat. That is the way geopolitics is.

Note if the USA was not concerned about collateral damage, there would places on the planet that would look like the dark side of moon. And that can be done without using Nukes. Just conventional munitions, e.g. HE & Napalm, etc. Those are not WMDs no matter how much you want to say they are. You can't make up your own definitions, change history, etc. It is what it is … the good, the bad and the ugly. And yes, it can get pretty ugly …

BTW,

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
― George Orwell

Sleep well if you, and those that believe as you do, can … ?

@Ruchel

Ah, so it's just ad hominem, whataboutism and red herrings to frother the milk then.

Already thought so.
Well then, have fun.

Won't feed.
Not worth keeping alive.

Arjuna +1 👍👍 Agree with you totally …

As Wolfhag[former USMC] & I said on another thread :

Wolf – "He seems to have no military exposure or experience."

Legion4 – That seems to be a standard with much of the media, educators, politicos, etc. … But as we often see accuracy is not part their agenda …

Or narrative … They forget freedom is not free. But have the freedom of speech and many other freedoms here in the USA. That they freely use at no expense to themselves. E.g. the military & LEOs are the bad guys … As I said before … The US does not have clean hands, many bad things have occurred. But many more good things have come from the USA … as I said.

And yes we try to correct those negatives. But this is a better place to be than many, many other places in the world. E.g. If not why are 1000s of people/illegal aliens and criminals literally overrunning our Southern Border from all over the world?[Saw more footage today on the news.] IF it is so bad here why is this happening … ? Maybe some US educators, academics, intellectuals, Liberals, Left, etc., could teach them how bad the US is in those schools in the nations that are flooding across our borders. Maybe they will think twice about coming to the USA ?

Of course I hope someone, some how allows the LEOs, CBP, ICE, etc., etc., to Again get this under control. If one wants to be an American you do it legally. And yes Not ALL bad guys come from outside the USA. However … Many today actually come from within. 'nuff side … about to get political … That is a Big NO GO ! 🏃‍♂️