"German tactical units in AWI" Topic

I believe that British and Rebel battalions used companies as maneuver elements rather than platoons as was done in Europe during the SYW, at least it seems that way when reading With Zeal and With Bayonets Only.

What about the Germans? It would seem logical that Hessians for example would copy the Prussian 8 platoon system, but when reading the recent Osprey on the Hessians, only 5 companies are mentioned. In reality, these units were very understrength at 3 to 4 hundred men. Thus, I wonder if the company was the maneuver/tactical element in America?

Well, of those 5 companies, one was the Grenadier company, which was stripped away to go to a CONVERGED Grenadier battalion. Note. They did not take their flag with them. That belonged to the regiment. So, CONVERGED battalions had NO FLAGS.

ALSO, in Europe, these regiments had 2 battalions. Not so in America. They arrived in one battalion regiments. Much like the British.

So, kicking the can down the road, my answer to your question is "I don't know."

"Is there no end to this 'CONVERGED' madness ?"
- it says here.

The challenge is a basing one. If the Hessians fought like the Brits and Rebels as companies, no problem. If they used miniature platoons (30 to 40 men in three ranks I call a mini platoon), then I need to make very small bases. I guess in that case 8 bases for the four companies.

The Hessians moved to a two rank formation, but did not adopt the open order the British were using. This is documented in Atwood's book. The exception may be von Bose when serving with Cornwallis in the south, as they may have used more open formations.

The Brunswickers showed even more flexibility when serving with Burgoyne in 1777.

When did the Hessians adopt the two rank formation?

It's in Atwood's book. I'd have to look it up.

"They were instructed to form in line two deep rather than three, as better suited to American conditions, and to adopt a looser order…."

Page 61, "The Hessians" by Rodney Atwood.

I believe I have seen that the Landgraf allowed them to move to two ranks, but forbid moving to looser files (e.g., open order) as the British did.

I believe that the Brunswick troops with Burgoyne were not under such restrictions, but I would have to double check that.

To correct some misinformation above – The Hessian regiments were of six companies, one of grenadiers, the other four musketeers (or fusiliers).

The center companies sent to America were comprised of one captain, one lieutenant, one second lieutenant, one ensign, one sergeant major, two sergeants, six corporals, three drummers, and 105 privates, totalling 130 per company, 650 in a regiment. These were of a different structure than regiments back home.

The grenadier battalions were to be commanded by a colonel who also commanded the Feldjagers companies (two originally). Each center regiment transferred four NCOs and fifteen men to the grenadier company. Each grenadier company was composed of one captain, one lieutenant, one second lieutenant, one ensign (no colors were carried by the grenadier companies), three sergeants, six corporals, two fifers, three drummers, 105 privates, totaling 131 men per company (I left out some of the supply, support people).

The original two Feldjager companies consisted of one captain, one lieutenant, two second lieutenants, four sergeants, six corporals, three hunting hornists, 105 Jagers for a total of 129 per company (again, leaving out some support people).

When later Feldjager companies were added, they increased the strength to 179 for the three additional companies of foot, and the mounted company totaled 175 men.

Note that at the assault on Fort Mercer, von Donop – who often commanded the grenadier battalions, is pictured in a Feldjager uniform in the Osprey book.

Also, Rall's reputation and service was sterling prior to the attack at Trenton.

I'll ask my German friends this weekend at the Mount Vernon event how the five companies fought.

Oh, Lord, correcting my own typos:

"To correct some misinformation above – The Hessian regiments were of six companies, one of grenadiers, the other four musketeers (or fusiliers)."

Someone is math challenged. One of grenadiers, the other FIVE of musketeers or fusiliers. (rolling eyes at self)

Oh, von Huyn did not have a grenadier company – just FYI.

It's a common math error. The subject itself is cursed.
I was once convinced that each regiment in America had two battalions, and I was upset with the various rules and scenarios that did not allow for this. I was wrong, of course.
It's not rocket science. It's COUNTING, for pity's sake.
Just don't give the CONVERGED Grenadier battalions flags. That's all I ask.

No flags! I am working on slightly slower movement as well as benefits for morale from battalion guns during combat.

historygamer 28 Apr 2021 6:39 p.m. PST
I'll ask my German friends this weekend at the Mount Vernon event how the five companies fought.

So you will be there? I was hoping to swing it but there was a little too much work on my plate for me to commit to buying advance tickets.

Yep. Leading the red team. :-)

Oh, von Huyn did not have a grenadier company – just FYI.

Yep. Everyone has to be special. But it wouldn't be missed anyway, since if there had been one, it would have been snapped up into the CONVERGED battalion anyway.

And to further muddy the waters, Regiment Rall (no "von"), the Grenadier REGIMENT consisting of tiny weedy lads, also had an "elite" company that was snatched away and CONVERGED with the battalion containing toe garrison regiment Grenadier companies.

I think that's enough confusion for today.

Oh, and the regimental names changed all the time when a new commander took over. So when Rall died, and the whole mess was pinned on all the officers who died, his regiment was renamed d'Angelelli. (No "von")
Hessian trivia is fun.

No wonder they were beaten at Trenton.

Exactly. If he had been "von Rall" instead of just plain "Rall"… who knows?

According to Attwood, Rall had a very good record and reputation up till Trenton. He didn't take the rebels very seriously at that point, and Washington and the boys pulled off an amazing piece of work there.

Well, I mean, it was Christmas and all.

Did not get satisfactory answers from those present this weekend. Let me go to another very expert source.

I haven't forgotten about this thread. I was told that the answer was they fought just like they did in the SYW in the five company organization. Perhaps someone on here knows more about SYW units.

According to "The Army of Frederick the Great" by Christopher Duffy:

"The tactical organisation of the battalion (five musketeer companies) comprised four divisions of two platoons each, making eight platoons in all. The transition of the battalion to the tactical organisation was accomplished under the direction of the battalion adjutant, who first closed the companies up, then told off the men into eight platoons, namely six of twenty-four files and two (the sixth and seventh) of twenty-three. While this was in train the battalion commander (a major) assigned the NCOs and officers to their respective divisions – one captain each to the first and third divisions, and one lieutenant each to the second and fourth.

"…By a happy chance the administrative and tactical organisations of the grenadier battalions did coincide, each company corresponding with a division of two platoons."

Duffy mentions that while platoon and division fire remained a part of parade-ground tactics, in actual combat the battalions usually fired in a battalion salvo, and Frederick confined the platoon firings to the two or three battalions on either flank.

The Prussian company had 114 musketeers. Historygamer, you mentioned the Hessian companies sent to American had 105 musketeers. Doing some math, the battalion's five companies would form 175 files, or 22 per platoon in three ranks. But when they went to two ranks the battalion would have 262 ranks or about 33 ranks per platoon. I don't know if this was how the Hessians fought, but I wanted to figure how many ranks a platoon would have if the battalion fought in eight platoons.

I believe you mean files. Thanks for the info.:-)