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Personal logo leg1on Supporting Member of TMP15 Apr 2021 12:28 p.m. PST

Hi All,

Can anyone help me find the reference for this map. I found the image online credited to Shelby Foote but I borrowed all three volumes of his Civil War from the library and didn't find it.

Little help?

Thanks Much



raylev3 Supporting Member of TMP15 Apr 2021 4:11 p.m. PST

You can see why West Virginia was created, and why Lincoln continuously pushed to get eastern Tennessee under Union control.

OSCS7415 Apr 2021 6:50 p.m. PST

What a great map, never seen it before. Brings an interesting perspective to the war.

Wackmole9 Supporting Member of TMP15 Apr 2021 6:53 p.m. PST

My Mother's Cousin's wife was from one of the northern Alabama counties. They sent their taxes north during the war and Many of their young men to fight for the Union.

A friend from Texas lost family members in the Texas Nueces Massacre of Unionist Germans from the red rock counties.

William Warner15 Apr 2021 7:15 p.m. PST

My GG-Grandmother Rogenbucke's two half-brothers survived the Nueces Massacre, but several weeks later they were ambushed while attempting to cross the Rio Grande. One was wounded, and although the other tried to save him, both drowned. It was a dangerous time to be a German loyalist in Central Texas.

Bill N16 Apr 2021 5:24 a.m. PST

The map is misleading, at least for Virginia. There were three Virginia votes on secession. The first was a vote by the Convention before Sumter in which secession was rejected. The second was a vote by the Convention after Sumter and the demand that Virginia supply troops to fight against the South, which approved secession. It appears this is what the map represents. The third was the popular referendum to approve the Convention's vote to secede. Some of counties where delegates went one way in the second Convention vote went another in the referendum. See this: link

Personal logo John the Greater Supporting Member of TMP16 Apr 2021 6:36 a.m. PST

Does this help?


Baranovich16 Apr 2021 10:01 a.m. PST

Guys, he wasn't asking for political or military commentary on the state of the country during the war, lol.

He wants to know the source where the map comes from.

Looking at the type font that the state abbreviations are done in, it has the feel of one of Bruce Catton's books. That type font was used a lot for maps in history books the 50s and 60s.

It also could possibly be from a text book of the same time period, 50s or 60s.

Baranovich16 Apr 2021 10:10 a.m. PST

This is what I'm talking about…this map is from Bruce Catton's 'The Coming Fury'. Very similar font and look.


Baranovich16 Apr 2021 10:13 a.m. PST

Here's a map from 'Never Call Retreat':


Baranovich16 Apr 2021 10:15 a.m. PST

I couldn't find a sharper image of this one, but this map also has a similar feel to the one you posted:


Personal logo Grelber Supporting Member of TMP16 Apr 2021 1:49 p.m. PST

On the internet, I found this map on a forum called CivilWarTalk. I don't know where the person who posted it back in 2016 got it.

Googling the map title brought up a couple similar maps; perhaps they would be of use?


Personal logo leg1on Supporting Member of TMP16 Apr 2021 6:02 p.m. PST

@ John the Greater:
Thanks for the link. That's where I think I found it originally and -- judging by how he leads up to it from mentioning Shelby Foote -- why I thought it would be in Foote's Civil War. I was surprised it isn't. Or at least I didn't see it.

@ Baranovich:
Thanks for the Catton goto. I'll look into that.

@ Grelber:
Yeah I found a couple others as well that are almost exactly the same but more modern. I suspect they're copies/reworks. One is listed as coming from Kids Britannica! I tried zooming on the publisher/source for the others but, no joy.

Personal logo Old Contemptible Supporting Member of TMP18 Apr 2021 10:48 p.m. PST

I have all three first edition volumes of Foote's narrative and it is not in them. I suggest you send a request to the UNC Southern Collection. Might check with the University of Virginia's Department of History.

Personal logo leg1on Supporting Member of TMP19 Apr 2021 4:31 p.m. PST

@ Old Contemptible:
Thanks for that confirm re Foote.
I'll take your advice and contact those folks. Thanks for that as well.

And at risk of sidelining my own thread, what I find interesting about the map I'm working to source is how much it layers with this map from Ella Lonn's Desertion During the Civil War:


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