"Is The U.S. And NATO Pushing For A Russia - Ukraine War?" Topic

"Again you defend Nazis.
Gathering Jews and shooting them or helping to deport them to concentration camps is not defending your home."

No, it is you who justify muscovites nazis and fascists who gather innocent civil people and war prisoners, shooting and burning them alive when deport them to concentration death camps.
_____

"And those uniforms aren't SS, they are Red Army."

And? Those non-German waffen-SS also weren't SS or Gestapo by Nurnberg Trial but national frontier units like Red Army. Don't justify muscovites fascism.
_____

"Not sure what bunch of thugs looting a booze shop has."

Those are our local nazi-fascist übermensch muscovites, who rioted against our state and whom you protect as being oppressed and suppressed by our "subhumans". Today one of them promised to hang me on top of the lamppost, when Putin's tanks will come.
_____

"If Ukraine joins NATO.."

It is not what I asked.

Any protests, regardless of their direction, are immediately joined by ordinary thieves, robbers and just crazy. Now Americans know this as well as others)))
Have the organizers of the protests called for such behavior?

"Any protests, regardless of their direction, are immediately joined by ordinary thieves, robbers and just crazy."

Not any, when peaceful civilized people protest against fascist muscovites, like in Ukraina, Belarus, Vladivostok etc., no such behaviour was noticed. This is part of riots, organized and provided by fascist muscovites or similar folks.

"Plus that is a memorial at a cemetery for dead Soviet soldiers who died fighting the Nazis."

And? Latvian Legionnaires also gather to memorise dead Latvian soldiers who died fighting the fascist muscovites aggressors. Why are you so hypocritical?

Sho Boki I am not hypocritical. You on the other hand are an unashamed nazi.

I have never un my life witnessed someone so openly supporting the Nazis or justifying atrocities (and I am ex Yugoslav so have heard some pretty nationalistic tirades from Croat and Setb alike).

"I have never un my life witnessed someone so openly supporting the Nazis or justifying atrocities"

You have a mirror? Look in it. You see one.
I never support muscovites Nazi Fascist regime or justify their atrocities, genocide and anti-semitism. You, in other hand, do this. You praise these fascist to be "proud people" and praise Putler for acting like Hitler. You justify muscovites fascist crimes like usual muscovite fascist – "americans did it too, americans did it too (hundreds of years ago)". You describe freedom-loving victims of fascist muscovites like untermensch who supposed to be in slavery.
I don't think that from two of us I am Nazi or Fascist.
Look in mirror.

Nazi Germany and fascist muscovia were twins, friends and allies, muscovia were just hundreds of times bigger evil.
_____

"If Crimea is in enemy hands, then the ships can't even get to the Turkish straits."

Those are your words.
Crimea is in enemy hands, how Ukrainian ships can get to the Turkish straits?
_____

"Black Sea is one of Russia's few year round sea accesses. Losing Black Sea removes key trade and naval access."

Black sea is the only access for Ukraina, Georgia, Moldova, Romania and Bulgaria.
Why these states must to lose their key trade and naval access to aggressive terrorist-Fascist-Nazi regime?

You see now, how you justify Nazi-Fascist muscovites aggression?

There are even more morally disgusting things.
For example children and women in muscovites SS uniforms celebrating the conquering and occupation of Estonia by muscovites. Nowadays in Estonia!

Wow ! Now that is "interesting" and a little concerning. But those look like Russian uniforms ? Had no idea that sort of thing was going on. We here have looters too, for months now. But for a number of other reasons. IMO, there is no good reason to loot, burn, etc.

Legion a quarter of the Estobian population is Russian (or muscovite as our resident neo nazi calls them).

Not sure when the riot photo was taken – I googled it but only came up with riots in 2007.

I wouldn't believe anything the neo nazi troll is saying.

Black sea is the only access for Ukraina, Georgia, Moldova, Romania and Bulgaria.
Why these states must to lose their key trade and naval access

Moldova is landlocked. You might want to look at a map next time.

No one said those countries should lose their access. The point was discussion is the drivers of Russian policy.

And Georgia is stuffed either way – they are on the far east of the Black Sea so the Russians will always be able to shut down their access even if they lose Crimea.

Indeed the Russians did exactly this in 2008. This is the sad price smaller countries pay when they neighbour great powers.

I don't think that from two of us I am Nazi or Fascist.

A person who views the SS and other genocidal Nazi collaborators as valiant defenders, justifies the Nazi invasion of USSR, who doesn't even recognise Slavic Russians as Russians and considers Germans to be the actual Russians is most certainly a Nazi.

"I wouldn't believe anything the neo nazi troll is saying."

You started to continually label me? :-)
I understand. You know, that everything I say is true and You can't argue with this, so You start to label.

When KGB put Putin at the head of Federation, Putin unveiled his moto, he learned as youngster in criminal gangs – cornered rat will attack. So his goal is to corner his federasts, that these will be ready for desperate attack and will not act like Stalin's muscovites, who at first possibility surrendered to Hitler and switched the side by millions.

Seemingly you are in corner now and start to label. :-)
_____

"Legion a quarter of the Estobian population is Russian (or muscovite as our resident neo nazi calls them)."

Why do you call all these different nationalities Russians or even muscovites?
You insult them.
We actually have both, muscovites and Russians, these are different groups and they rightfully hate each other.
_____

"I googled it but only came up with riots in 2007"

Yes, this was "Bronze night", failed coupe d'etat, planned, directed and orchestrated by Kreml. Unfortunately for them our government reacted promptly and confused their schedule. This in not first time when muscovites tried to execute the hostile takeover. In 1924, only couple of years after signing the Treaty of Peace between muscovites and Estonia, they tried and failed in this too. But they succeeded in 1940, after occupation of Estonia and with victims in front of the guns, like 7 years ago in Crimea.
_____

"No one said those countries should lose their access. The point was discussion is the drivers of Russian policy."

If so, then Russia also should not lose access. So absolutely no justification for muscovites occupation in Crimea.
_____

"Indeed the Russians did exactly this in 2008. This is the sad price smaller countries pay when they neighbour great powers."

So Americans do the right thing, when they will end their supported Rossia Federation project?
They understand their mistake in the nineties, when they preserved and helped Rossia to stand democratic country with nuclear weapons as counterweight to China. Democracy is unacceptable to the nature of the muscovites, federasts want Führer, Czar, Putin.

So we need to separate this bloodthirsty Federation into smaller independent countries and all will be happy. Except muscovites of course, they must pay contributions and reparations for their crimes, like Fascist Germany did.
_____

"A person who views the SS and other genocidal Nazi collaborators as valiant defenders, justifies the Nazi invasion of USSR, who doesn't even recognise Slavic Russians as Russians and considers Germans to be the actual Russians is most certainly a Nazi."

I cannot be a Nazi by definition.

But you promote RaSSism.
RaSSism is muscovites (Russians by you) tailored ortodox, criminal, corrupt and terrorist version of neo-Nazi and neo-Fascist ideology.

You view the SS equivalent NKVD (later KGB) and other genocidal Nazi-Fascist muscovites collaborators as valiant defenders, justify the Nazi-Fascist muscovites invasion to neighbour states and even "recognise" Russians as Slavic.
This is RaSSism.

So we need to separate this bloodthirsty Federation into smaller independent countries and all will be happy. Except muscovites of course, they must pay contributions and reparations for their crimes, like Fascist Germany did.

Wow your hate of Russia really knows no boundaries….

And no you are a Nazi unless you don't regard SS to be Nazis in which case you're insane.

"Wow your hate of Russia really knows no boundaries"

Not at all. Like you suggest, I am neutral and I see muscovites actions with a neutral perspective. It is only good thing to do to free nations from muscovites oppression.
____

"And no you are a Nazi unless you don't regard SS to be Nazis in which case you're insane."

Of course SS, KGB and muscovites are Nazi and Fascist, I don't argue with this at all. But you do. Are you insane?

I am neutral and I see muscovites actions with a neutral perspective

Says a man seething with so much hatred for modern Russians he doesn't even recognise them as Russians (apparently real Russians are German), who views SS as defenders against Fascism and who wishes for Russia to be dismembered.

What a joke!

"apparently real Russians are German"

Actually I never said that all Russians were German.
Yes, there were lot of Germans but there was also another foreigners.
Russians had roots and nationalities then.

But in 2nd Generation of Russians (former velikoross), when original Russians vanished, there was no roots or nationalities or historical memory. So there was no Germans anymore, only muscovites. Or soviets, as they were called.
_____

"SS as defenders against Fascism"

You are surprised? You call NKVD as defenders against Fascism and you are not confused? No difference between SS and NKVD. If they fight with each other, they both fight with nazi-fascist-communists.
_____

"who wishes for Russia to be dismembered"

Not Russia but Nazi-Fascist Rossia Federation. There are no such thing like Russia. Russians (muscovites) even don't have homeland. Literally. There are no words "home" and "homeland" in Russian artificial language. And there are no Russian Republic in Rossia Federation. When Federation falls and all slavered by muscovites nationalities becomes free, then muscovites will have only some Finno-Ugric lands where local Finno-Ugric peoples are fully russified to muscovite Zombies.

Well, arealdeadone?
I warned you)))
In non-existent Russia, among non-existent Russians there is a saying: "As long as excrement is not touched, it does not stink much".

Cuprum,
Some very wise words!

You really must invite arealdeadone to the muscovites Forums, Cuprum. :-)
He fully support Putin's aggressions, occupations, murders, wars and terror.
Svoi paren. Muscovites will not going to throw him with excrements.

Legion 4, two girls on guard at the monument are dressed in the uniform of the Soviet Air Force (the distant one is a model of 1935, the one that is closer is in a uniform of the 1943 model). The girls in the background are, as far as I can tell, the usual M1943 infantry uniform. The man is in the field uniform of the cadet of the military school Ì1943). No NKVD uniform is used in this case.
In 2007, Russian residents of Estonia protested against the relocation of a monument erected on the grave of Soviet soldiers who died freeing Estonia from the Nazis. There really were riots. The looters took advantage of the fact that at that moment the police were distracted to oppose the protests (yes – these bandits have Russian surnames). There is no connection between the protesters and the robbers. A robber, regardless of his nationality, has a place in prison. Even in Estonia, even in Russia, even in the USA.

"a monument erected on the grave of Soviet soldiers who died freeing Estonia from the Nazis"

Why there are no monuments for German soldiers who died freeing Estonia from Soviets? Mh?

"There is no connection between the protesters and the robbers."

You repeat this twice. So I repeat my answer also :-)

"when peaceful civilized people protest against fascist muscovites, like in Ukraina, Belarus, Vladivostok etc., no such behaviour were noticed. This robbery is part of violent riots, organized and provided by fascist muscovites or similar folks."

You forget Chechenia….

Armand

"You forget Chechenia…"

I did not. I said:

"This is why normal people are not happy with current muscovites agressions against all neighbours, Ichkeria, Azerbaijan, Moldova, Georgia, Ukraina, Syria etc."

Ichkeria is their own name. Muscovites killed there 300.000 civil people and completely destroyed their capital when they tried to build up democratic society. Putin even blows up muscovites own appartment buildings with habitants who were families of muscovites officers, to get casus belli and to tune officers to be bloody against Ichkeria civil people.

Legion a quarter of the Estobian population is Russian (or muscovite as our resident neo nazi calls them).

Did not know it was that high …

Legion 4, two girls on guard at the monument are dressed in the uniform of the Soviet Air Force (the distant one is a model of 1935, the one that is closer is in a uniform of the 1943 model). The girls in the background are, as far as I can tell, the usual M1943 infantry uniform. The man is in the field uniform of the cadet of the military school Ì1943).

Thank you for the details, I knew they looked Russian.

The looters took advantage of the fact that at that moment the police were distracted to oppose the protests (yes – these bandits have Russian surnames). There is no connection between the protesters and the robbers. A robber, regardless of his nationality, has a place in prison. Even in Estonia, even in Russia, even in the USA.

Yes only the names change.

Tango01 it is interesting that you support separatism in Chechnya, but strongly oppose it in Ukraine)))
Do you like those Chechens who detonate bombs in the United States, cut off the heads of teachers in France, shoot NATO soldiers while in ISIS? Are you sure that these are the fighters for the independence of Chechnya?

"Tango01 it is interesting that you support separatism in Chechnya, but strongly oppose it in Ukraine"

And which part of Ichkeria wanted to separate from Ichkeria???

Muscowia lost both wars he started against independent Ichkeria and pay contributions and reparations to winner every year, but achieves his goal – Ichkeria changes not to Democratic state but to radical Islamic state who detonate bombs in the US when Putin asks this. Muscovites are very pleased.

So, when "those Chechens detonate bombs in the United States, cut off the heads of teachers in France, shoot NATO soldiers while in ISIS" then these are mercenaries of muscovites and not "the fighters for the independence of Chechnya."

Legion 4: "Did not know it was that high …"

It was one third, when muscovites occupation ends.
They migrated immediately to the West as "refugees" from Africa.
But large number of Russians from Muscowia ask political asylum every year and we help them. Our local Nazi muscovites hate Russians even more than muscovites in Fascist Muscowia.

Btw.. arealdeadone, you didn't answer the question "Are you aware that muscovia are fully compliant with 14 Common Features of Fascism by Umberto Ecco?"
State considered to be Fascist when 6-7 characteristics coincide but Muscovia match with all of them.

I hope that you do not plan to travel to Israel? It is dangerous for you now as you violated their legislation about terrorism. You are lucky if they will just send you back, but you may also get 3 years of prison. This thread only is sufficient evidence, but you publicly support international terrorism in many other threads also. You even call Jews who fight with terrorism to be Nazi.

"Tango01 it is interesting that you support separatism in Chechnya, but strongly oppose it in Ukraine"

I don't support nobody… I do not know that Ichkeria was the same name…. that's all…

Each country with their own problems… (we have pleny here to be worry for others)…

Armand

And the relevance of this to wargaming is?

I'd be able to follow the arguments more easily if more commonly used nationalities (for example) were used rather than throwing out phrases like ‘fascist Muscovites'. I have no idea if that specifically refers to Soviet period Russians or Putin-period Russians or something else entirely, for example.

I appreciate that the protagonists in this thread feel passionately about the subject but impartial readers aren't going to learn much when it's couched in such terms.

Very true … I didn't know that many in those regions still had a lot of disdain, etc., for each other.

This is good subject for long term strategic wargaming, like Sid Meyer's Civ on computers. How 10 foreigners conquer and rule over 10.000 locals. Then they assimilates and new 10 foreigners come.. and so on and so on.. it is history of so called Russia.

In West there were lot of people but limited land for expanding, so tensions arise and tensions cause development. So Scandinavian Vikings already created kingdoms when Estonian Vikings only started to do that. But another Finno-Ugric peoples on the east had so many land but few people, so they asked from their western brothers, who already had know-how: "We have lot of lands but no order, please, come and rule us!" And Rurik from Rus came and rules in Holmgardr (new Novgorod).

Later they conquered Kiev and were famous with their slave market there. Tribes around of Kiev wasn't Finno-Ugric and as evil tongues speak, this market gave them their overall name as they were the object of trade there.

Rus rulers in Holmgardr (Novgorod) and Kiev at first worked friendly together and cooperated for joint wars against Byzantine. But after Kiev was baptized, relations cooled.

This was Scandinavian period, 10 Rus foreigners over 10.000 local tribes.
Then mongol-tartars rides through and founded Moscow as their centre of tax collecting from local tribes. Tartar tax collectors and oppressors were muscovian national heroes like Aleksander Nevski. Moscow was western outpost of Golden Horde (new Kazakhstan).
The Tartar period starts, 10 Tartars over 10.000 local people.

As tax collector, Moscow grow and became important in Tartar Golden Horde. Stealing are muscovites national sport since then. Famous stealing tax collector was even named as Ivan Moneybag (Kalita), Ivan I of Moscow. When Golden Horde collapsed in civil wars, Moscow takes the power and call himself as legal successor. Moscow still pays taxes to Crimean Tartars until 18th Century, but since then muscovites consider himself as Third Reich.

When Peter I, as Czar-ruler of Muscovian "kingdom", conquered all possible neighbour lands, Ukraina, Belarus, Estonia… etc., he in 1721 renamed himself from Czar to Emperor, muscovia to Rossia and muscovites to rossians. After his death, the throne was occupied by Germans – Empress Sophie of Anhalt-Zerbst, Catherine the Great. The western or German time of history of muscovites started, 10 Germans (Russians) over 10.000 Rossians.

Catherine decided with German efficiency to unite all these thousands of tribes in her Empire to one. Make all local people to obedient Zombies. For this she decided to use a brand new artificial language, invented by one Croat. Best scientist of new Empire, Lomonossov, was sent to Ukrainian University to convert this artificial language to cyrillic alphabet and make it useful. This was start of modern Russian language. It takes hundred of years, when most of habitants in Empire learned and talked in this language. This is why Russians, who fought against Napoleon, don't speaks in Russian. They don't learned yet this artificial language.

So Russians were and are westerners, share Western values. Consequently, muscovites are the opposite.

When Russian Empire turns against their creators in WWI, Germans decided to cure the situation with Lenin and they had success. For while. Then Russian (German) period (project) ended.

Most Americans couldn't find either on a world map, and they will be told what to think by our highly biased and corrupt main stream media when the time comes.

BINGO !!!! "1984" …

Our local Nazi muscovites hate Russians even more than muscovites in Fascist Muscowia.

Again, was unaware of this … From USA's standpoint … Putin et al are not our "friends" …

"Wawaweewah!"

Very nice!
How much?
;-)

They can interrogate me anytime ! 🤩😎

What will Russia do with forces massed on Ukraine's borders?

link

Armand

Occupied Crimea is without water thanks to muscovites. Muscovites plan to conquer Ukraina to grab Ukrainian water for Crimea. They have no other solution.

I think Putin with massing troops on Ukraine's border may just be a bit of sabre rattling. To see, among other things what the new USA's leadership will …

I'm betting the USA will do nothing but talk about lot of negatives, etc., towards Putin et al.

More sanctions are enough.
And limitation of buying gas and oil from muscovy only through Ukraina pipelines.

The sanctions seem like the best choice, IMO …