"Fighting Escalates in Eastern Ukraine, Signaling the End" Topic

… to Another Cease-Fire

"The war in eastern Ukraine, which has been on a low simmer for months, drawing little international attention, has escalated sharply in recent days, according to statements Tuesday from the Ukrainian and Russian governments.

In the deadliest engagement so far this year, four Ukrainian soldiers were killed and another seriously wounded in a battle against Russian-backed separatists in the Donetsk Region of eastern Ukraine, the country's military said.

The soldiers' deaths, along with a buildup of Russian forces on the border, has seized the attention of senior American officials in Europe and Washington. In the past week, the U.S. military's European Command raised its watch level from possible crisis to potential imminent crisis — the highest level — in response to the deployment of the additional Russian troops…"

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Armand

Very sad to see this happening again.

Just the other day someone had questioned if Putin might invade somewhere, looks like we have our answer, and it is in the same spot they've been fighting over for quite some time.

I hope the USA will send more than first aid kits, blankets, and MREs this time.

I suspect the Ukrainians could use some more Javelin A/T missiles, and perhaps something to knock down drones, or take out enemy artillery too.

I do find the timing VERY interesting, since for the last few years things were relatively quiet, and now they are suddenly flaring up again. I can clearly see why, which is a terrible shame for the Ukrainian people and nation.

Russia has already received everything it wanted in Ukraine (Crimea and prevent Ukraine from joining NATO). And now it is in her interests to maintain the existing status quo. Freeze the conflict. That is why no one includes the territories of the rebellious regions in Russia. Accordingly, "warming up" the front is in the interests of Ukraine.
The dead four Ukrainian servicemen actually died during the demining of the area, as their colleagues write about on social networks. But this is a good reason to blame Russia and justify the increase in the military grouping of Ukrainian troops at the front.
A resumption of the conflict in an acute form is possible, but you will see that it is the Ukrainian troops that will go over to the offensive. Only after this will the Russian army intervene.

I enjoy your input and different perspective Cuprum2, but I don't think it is unreasonable for the Ukrainians to want and try to defend their territory from Russian separatists, or Russian soldiers/Little Green Men/Lost Russian vacationers.

It seems quite reasonable for them to go over onto the offensive in order to defend their territory. We in the West call that an "active defense"

I also don't think it is unreasonable for the Ukrainian troops, or volunteers to try to remove landmines from their territory either, placed there by others.

If Russia, and/or Russians, or Russian-backed guerrillas placed them there, then obviously they will be blamed for that, with good reason.

In all the time of the conflict, I don't recall a single incident where a Ukrainian, or Ukrainians are, or were crossing over into Russian territory to fight, or firing over the border into Russian territory. Please feel free to correct me if that is wrong.

I have read about, seen, and heard of Russian troops, armor, and other vehicles and weapons crossing over into Ukraine, and I've read reports of artillery being fired over the border from Russian territory into Ukraine as well.

Also, as we now well know, those "little green men" were Russian troops that took over Crimea at the direction of your President for Life, Vladimir Putin, despite numerous denials at the time.

Well said Thresher01.

I hate to say it, but I have more respect for Putin as a leader who is looking out for the best interests of his country than I do for some other "world leaders" that I will not name.

Thresher01 & USAF +1 each !

The protection of one's country and territory is an undoubted right and duty of every citizen of any country.
But only when a revolution takes place in your country, during which the government you legally elected is forcibly overthrown, then any citizen has the right to agree with this or disagree. If this citizen is forced to accept the new illegal authorities by force of arms, he has the right to defend his own rights with arms in hand. Is not it? No democracy – violence prevails. The rebels are in their civil law, they defend their rights and freedoms. This is a typical civil war.
The next question is Russia's support for the Ukrainian rebels. It really is. There is no official information, but I think Russia supplied them with weapons extensively, very likely – provided direct support on the battlefield with a regular army. But … Russia could not plan the seizure of the territories of Ukraine and the creation of an insurrectionary movement in advance, since it was definitely not a "sponsor" of the revolution, unlike the countries of the West. Russia's interference is a response to Western interference in the internal Ukrainian process. This is undeniable. The disproportionate involvement of Russia is just a consequence of the need to act in the proposed and not thought out in advance circumstances.
Russia has publicly committed itself to protecting "Russian-speaking" people throughout the territory of the former USSR from arbitrariness and will do this by force of arms. The Ukrainian authorities were offered a huge number of times to negotiate with the rebels, whose rights were violated by the "revolutionaries" and the new government created by them, but the new government rejects the peaceful settlement of the conflict created by it. So who chooses war?

Before condemning Russia, remember, have the Western countries done nothing of the kind?

During the active phase of the conflict, Ukrainian troops more than once crossed into Russian territory, mainly to internment. But sometimes such crossings led to military clashes with border troops. However, this is quite natural and happened several times.

But there were also direct shelling of Russian territory with civilian casualties from the Russian side:

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To clarify, in this case we are talking about the small Russian city of Donetsk, located near the border with Ukraine and located in the Russian Rostov region. (a city bearing the same name is on the Ukrainian rebellious territory).

The Russians are also responsible for shooting down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17). I used to have a lot of respect for Russians, but after their blatant incursions and murders, I sincerely hope someone s them over bigtime.

The Russians are also responsible for shooting down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17).

So how do you feel about the Americans shooting down Iran Air 665? Do you hope someone bleeps us over big time? Never mind, we are currently getting bleeped over big time from within.

It is possible that the Boeing was shot down by the Russian side. But so far this has not been proven. At least Malaysia does not believe in this version.
And in any case, the flights of civilian airliners over the zone of hot conflict, in which a significant number of aircraft have already been shot down, is more like a provocation. And such an incident is definitely not in the interests of either the rebels or Russia, which means it cannot be intentional.

We've read/heard the intel transcripts/radio intercepts of the Russian-backed guerrillas that fired on the jet and shot it down, exclaiming even concern over what they did after the fact.

We've even seen photos and video of the actual launcher that fired the missile, as it was moved back over the border into Russian territory.

Sorry, that seems VERY conclusive to me.

I've seen live dinosaurs and space aliens in feature films. Does this mean that they exist?
I saw a photo of an emaciated Muslim prisoner in a Serbian concentration camp. Concentration camp – which did not exist, but which had to be invented. Need to continue?
I also saw the US Secretary of State publicly claiming from the UN rostrum that he had overwhelming evidence that Iraq possessed chemical weapons.
So what?

Where can one find an independent examination of these sources? For example – carried out by the Malaysian side?

We know the Ukrainians and Americans didn't do it.

There is lots of intel, photos, voice recordings, radar plots, etc.. I'm willing to believe those.

So, either Russian separatists did it, or Russian troops themselves.

Clearly there is guilt, given the intercepted and recorded statements (I believe they even know the individuals names), as well as photos and video of the SAM launcher moving out of Ukraine afterwards.

All of the evidence together is very damning, and convincing, at least for me.

The Malaysians don't have the capability to perform a proper investigation on their own.

Iraq did have chemical weapons Cuprum2, and America and others covered it up to keep the local jihadis from finding, stealing, and using it. The destruction of a lot of those chemical weapons have sickened thousands, if not tens of thousands of American troops that served in Iraq, because they were then exposed to it – that IS fact.

Also, now, I've seen lots of video of Russian armor moving to the Ukrainian border once again, and it appears we are in for a repeat of the increased fighting there shortly. One person has mentioned a full-scale war could kick off in the next month or so, perhaps slated to coincide with the anniversary of Germany's defeat in WWII, in May.

Time will tell, but at least this time, if we get another repeat of the Crimean invasion, there will be no denying who the "little green men" belong to.

I am glad that you are confident that the Ukrainians (possibly with the assistance of the Americans) did not do this. I have no such confidence. Where did the Ukrainian dispatchers who drove the Boeing disappear to? Nobody interrogated them. Why did the pilot of the Ukrainian Su-25, who was credited with the attack on the Boeing according to one of the versions, commit suicide? Why, finally, does the Ukrainian version not inspire confidence in the Malazian authorities? And these are not all questions.
Following your logic, Ukrainians have something to hide – it means they are to blame)))

Malaysians can easily invite any experts to investigate. Especially with the assistance of all stakeholders.

About the video. I am not an expert in composite photography, just as I think you are. But here are a couple of articles from a professional videographer who notices interesting discrepancies in the footage of the Buk anti-aircraft gun transportation. On the same day, the anti-aircraft gun was transported by three (!) different tractors of the same color. Which is extremely strange. He has several more articles where he deals with the issues of editing and falsification of this video, but it will be difficult to grasp the meaning there without the English text. And this analysis is provided in a scanned form and cannot be automatically translated. But, in my opinion, his remarks in the video frames are more than understandable.
Is it true? I dont know. But the questions raised by the engineer are really interesting)))

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Did Saddam Have Chemical Weapons? OK. But then you will already decide who and when you lied. Here is a report from the Iraq Survey Group, which says that this weapon has not been found)))

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I have seen many videos of Ukrainian armored vehicles approaching the line of conflict. But I do not understand why Putin now needs an aggravation of the conflict. To increase pressure on Russia? For NATO to go to war? Why does he need the conquest of Ukraine? To get massive resistance from anti-Russian insurgents? If he needed all of Ukraine, he would have captured it back in 2014, when Ukraine actually did not have an army, and what remained was completely disorganized by the "revolution". The request of the lawful Ukrainian President Yanukovich, ousted by force, was enough. And this would be an absolutely legitimate operation at the request of the legitimate government!
But the desire of the Ukrainian authorities to try again to resolve the issue with the rebels by force is absolutely clear to me. They are inspired by the position of the new American president and close economic ties with his family))) As well as the example of the brilliant operation of Azerbaijanis in Karabakh.

And yes, Russia lied about the "little green men" in Crimea. Alas, lies are now commonplace in politics. And not only in Russia.

I see no reason to continue our conversation. You will remain with your opinion – and I will my opinion. So why waste time?)))

I reckon the Russians blew the Boeing out of the sky by accident.

Fault lies with cheap skate airlines who prefer to fly over active warzones to save fuel and thus increase profits.

In any case I reckon Biden has emboldened the Ukrainians who will theb wake up and realise that irritating the bear is a stupid thing to do.

This time next year we could have Russian troops on the Hungarian-Ukrainian border.

I don't think that now Putin needs new regions with a disloyal population. The maximum that Ukraine can lose by starting a fight is the Donetsk and Luhansk regions within their administrative borders (the territories of the unrecognized republics are now smaller than the former administrative borders of these regions). A mutiny is also possible in some of the "Russian-speaking" regions adjacent to the unrecognized republics, which are now still under the control of Kiev (for example, the Odessa region).
But, again, I see no reason for Putin to start a war. He has already achieved all of his goals in Ukraine – preserving the Russian naval base in Crimea and preventing Ukraine from joining NATO. Now you just need to wait for a new revolution to ripen in Ukraine)))

This Foreign Policy artilce, even been pro-ukrainian, has some decent opinions.
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What's not there, is that Ukrainian president is very unpopular in his country, failing to deliver pretty much everything he promised during the election campaign, and North Stream is in its final stage. Ukraine is facing the loss of transit fees and it will add to their massive problems in the economy. Therefore, they're interested in reminding the world about them being the vanguard of fight against Russia and get some monetary and military donations in the process. Also, troubles in the economy will be blamed on Russia once again.
My resume – everything will be the same as before. Russia wants to show, that this conflict is not going to be solved by Ukrainian offensive.

I've seen live dinosaurs and space aliens in feature films. Does this mean that they exist?

You mean they don't ?!?!?!? 😮😦😧

Seems I'm not the only one who thinks US is emboldening Ukraine to act more aggressively with potentially devastating results. National Interest is seeing parallels with US and Georgia in 2007-08 and Ukraine today.

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Nothing new for us Russians here, it looks obvious if you have full picture from both sides.
- Ukraine doesn't really want to follow up Minsk agreement, they're labeling them as unfair, claiming they've signed them when they were forced into it after the defeat in their first Donbass incursion. Now they even don't want to travel to Minsk, as during recent years their relations with Byelorussia detoriated and they no longer see them as neutral or friendly.
- They have spent a lot on the army and relocated new equipment and troops to the demarkation zone during last couple of months
- some members of their parliament and military started talking about fast solution to the problem of the East, claiming they need less than 2 weeks for military action
- recon groups started probing defences, with special emphasize on mine fields. Granted that there're thousands of mines deployed by both sides, Ukrainian army took some losses. Of course you might have a special interest in the mine fields if you're planning an offensive.
- Rebel republics were forced to announce mobilization
- Ukraine is building a support for its potential offensive in Europe, USA and even some Gulf countries, as well as renewing its efforts to jump into NATO asap.
- Russia moved the troops to the border to give a brighter picture of what might happen if Ukraine attacks the rebels.

And Ukraine is heading towards greater authoritarianism (no surprises – this actually commenced with the Maidan protests).

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NATO/US should step away from any assistance to Ukraine which is infested with actual Nazis and is increasingly authoritarian.

Also what's interesting is that Ukraine destroyed its own economy to foster closer western ties. Loss of Russian market was not offset by increased access to European one.

This happened to so many ex-Communist countries whose living standards never really recovered to Communist levels under new democratic and (crony) capitalist governments.

When their policies begin to show abject failure on the home front; the US administration will look for a bogeyman to divert attention. With a complicit and corrupt media behind them, the puppet masters will blame Russia. The neocons always like a good little war.

"the puppet masters will blame Russia. The neocons always like a good little war."-USAF

I don't think Russia or China would be little. Is there someone else they could have in mind for a thrashing?

Well, it's been all proxy wars (wrt Russia) since we dropped the big one in ‘45. I think our corrupt politicians like to pick on the Russians. It distracts from selling us out to China. My guess; Syria is the go to country for all the neocons who want to start a little war. By the the way, I hate neocons, can you tell?

Ps: I'll probably be dawghoused soon. If you haven't been in the TMP doghouse yet; you're not trying hard enough. Get to work y'all.

Current US administration is definitely looking for a fight with Moscow (obviously not a total war but rather ratcheted up diplomatically and ramping up proxy war in Ukraine).

Of course any agitation could quickly lead to a shooting war especially as unlike in Cold War, there are no rules of engagement and no de-escalation mechanisms in place.

(obviously not a total war but rather ratcheted up diplomatically and ramping up proxy war in Ukraine).

At this time I'm not too sure about that … watching the news much of day. But I can't say anything else as I want to stay out of the Dawg Haus ! 🐶🏠