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"The Burgundian State" Topic

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Warspite129 Mar 2021 6:27 a.m. PST

For those unfamiliar, especially in North America, Burgundy was an interesting concept. Although ruled by a Duke its income and affluence was greater than many kingdoms but its loyalties were divided.
The dukes of Burgundy were vassals – at least in theory – of both the French kings and the Holy Roman emperor, while in practice they could display a considerable amount of independence.
In truth they could be described as 'palatine' dukes who were at least on a par with a prince and probably much higher.

Modern Europeans are familiar with Burgundy as a wine-growing area of France but old Burgundy stretched from the English Channel (modern Netherlands) down to Northern Italy where the dukes held lands. The duchy's downfall was due to Charles the Bold (also known as Charles the Rash) who, like a player of Monopoly who wanted to collect the colour set and build hotels, decided that he needed Switzerland to make his dukedom one entity.
The Swiss had other ideas about the subject. Grandson, Morat, Nancy.

Clicking around today I found this Wiki page which you are probably all familiar with. If you are not then give it a good read.


Burgundy derived much of its wealth from the trade with England for wool which was then turned into fine woollen cloth and re-exported. It was with a nod in this direction that the Order of the Golden Fleece was established in imitation of the English Order of the Garter.


Although the order faded after the death of Charles the Bold I was a little surprised to find that the order still exists as an honorific.


Puster Sponsoring Member of TMP29 Mar 2021 1:49 p.m. PST

No mention of the Siege of Neuss and Charles campaign vs. the Empire in the test as reason for its downfall?
Wikipedia needs some input…

It was the call of Frederik to defend the Empire that lead to the Swiss and Swabian league to declare and wage war against Charles, leading to the battle of Hericourt and the subsequent Swiss/Burgundian war.

When the English led their army to Burgundy for a combined campaign vs. France, as previously agreed upon, Charles was still stuck before Neuss and had to pass the opportunity. It was that tiny town that resisted for 11 month, and the unlikely assembly of a Reichsheer, that sent Charles down his doom. On the other side of that citywall he probably would have declared himself king.

Druzhina16 Aug 2021 5:16 p.m. PST

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