"My epic scale Civil War starter box arrived! A review..." Topic

So I finally got the long-awaited Warlord Games epic scale ACW starter set, it arrived this afternoon!

I got the bigger version of the pre-order mega bundle that included all the books and 1st wave building terrain as well as the George Meade and Robert E. Lee blister packs.

The box is heavy, came in at around 13 lbs. It's absolutely loaded. A good portion of the weight came from the MDF building sheets and the books, with the rest of the weight coming from the piles of plastic sprues.

This a really great way to get into ACW fast and all in one price. You get a massive amount of infantry which is what you need the most of of course when building ACW armies.

From comparing the infantry sprues in the starter set to the promotional one that came in Wargames Illustrated, it seems that the actual production sprues have slightly crisper detail than the initial promotional sprue.

Getting all three of the books in one package was really nice as well, especially the soft-cover smaller sized version of the 2nd Edition Black Powder rules as well as Glory Hallelujah, and the scenario booklet.

One thing I noticed right away is that the individually cast figures, Meade and Lee are actually cast in resin! This surprised me, I thought they would be plastic. The detail of those minis. is way finer and crisper than the production plastic infantry is.

If you look at the website right now you will also see the next pre-orders that are available. I suspect that things like the supply wagons and the artillery limber set are also cast in resin, and are more expensive because of the finer detail. However I can't see myself paying $20.00 USD for a single artillery piece and limber or a single supply wagon. Probably makes more sense to use like Kallistra to add those types of additions to the armies. You can get a set of TWO Kallistra artillery limbers and guns with crew for about $10.00 USD as opposed to the Warlord one where you only get ONE limber for twice the money.

One other interesting thing I noticed is that Warlord's individual artillery limber and cannon set have the correct number of spokes on the wheels, whereas the production artillery that comes on the generic infantry sprues have the spokes short-cutted. The generic artillery wheels only have eight spokes vs. the resin one which has fourteen spokes.

Not a huge deal in the overall scheme of things, but it would have been nice if they had given the generic artillery the correct number of spokes as well.

My only primary complaint about the starter set are the flag sheets. The flags are proportioned in my estimation more for 10mm minis, they are WAAAAY too small for 13.5mm/15mm tall soldiers. In looking at some of the company photos of the flags actually on the banner poles it doesn't look quite as bad when everything is all massed up. But they are still noticeably far too small in proportion.

I'm thinking of getting a few sets of 15mm ACW flags from maybe GMB to use instead. That being said, the sheets are very nice quality prints with crisp color and details. So if the size issue doesn't bother you too much they will still look nice on the finished models.

So overall this is a very cool set with a ton of greaat content. I think if you utilize Kallistra to round out some of the supplemental stuff like artillery limbers and dismounted cavalry, etc. you'll get a much better deal than if you get Warlord's.

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Kitty!

@Glengarry5,

Actually a black Lab, lol…and she's a big dog. The starter set box is huge!

I got my set today as well. The plastic is easily cut by an X-acto knife, so some trials have revealed:

(1) The process of kepi-fying the troops to turn hats into caps is fairly easy, so if you're trying to make your Army of Potomac stands heavier on the forage caps you're in luck.

(2) It also isn't that difficult to cut a 10-man strip down the middle for two 5-man strips. So if you'd rather have 30mm wide bases with two ranks of 5, rather than 60mm wide with 2x10, again you're in luck. Of course you'll have to supply your own bases.

(3) Obviously one can't sculpt on the missing cannon wheel spokes, but it will be simple enough to remove the ahistorical barrel bands and to drill out the muzzles.

Dogs sit next to boxes. Kitties sit on or preferably in boxes, especially game boxes. :)

It's an interesting set. Thanks for the detailed info.

Thanks for posting. It almost makes me want to get into the ACW with that set.

Goy mine today too. Impressive first impression. I will be anxious to see how they paint up. Ordered the complete GW contrast paint set too. Looks like the best way to go for me.

Since you mention 13.5/15mm – any comparison photos with Old Glory, Blue Moon, Stone Mtn, Peter Pig etc

Curious if I can blend them into my 15mm/18mm armies – though my guess is not

Thanks

There are multiple threads about this product on the ACW Product Review board, if you want to look at those. Consensus is that Kallistra's 12mm line is a pretty good match.

The starter box looks like great value – I am looking forward to receiving mine, but the pricing on the resin add-ons seems really steep relative to the typical cost for other 10-15mm ranges. I thought that was just a Canada-pricing thing but perhaps not?

First hit is free! (Or at least cheap in this case). It's the next hits that get you. It works for drugs and miniatures as both are addictive.

@DisasterWargamer,

79thPA is correct, a number of gamers have mentioned that Kallistra is a very close match to Warlord Epic scale.

I do have some Kallistra on hand, I will try to take some pics. shortly and post them here so you can see them side by side with Warlord's stuff. I can confirm that Kallistra is one of the few ranges out there that is a close match to Warlord.

I can tell you here though, from watching quite a few Youtube video reviews of Epic scale where scale comparisons were done – The 15mm companies that you list above are not compatible with Warlord's epic scale. The size difference is too great.

Now that being said, terrain is a bit of a different story. I got a bunch of Stone Mountain 15mm ACW terrain to go with my Warlord stuff and it's a pretty decent match. I also got a number of Hovels 15mm buildings and they are a also pretty good match to Warlord's Epic ACW.

With things like stone walls, fences, haystacks, etc. there is more flexibility visually as opposed to trying to match up two scales of actual miniature soldiers, at least in my experience.

Baranovich – a very good review. Thank you for posting.

Some interesting points made in reply too, especially for me the issue of trimming down the hats to kepis ( tried it and quite easy to do). I also tried just as an experiment cutting a strip in half, not bad but did leave a slightly flat spot at the join, nothing that you will see once painted I suspect. My first instinct was to see if I could this so that I could use 10 figure bases for Brigade Fire & Fury (my favourite set since they first came out in the 90's was it?). Jury is still out on this for me but for now I have just gone with the bases as supplied.

Anyway, I suspect we are all going to be spending endless hours painting these and hopefully they will bring us a lot of collective pleasure.

Lee.

Edit: Damn shame about those artillery wheel spokes!

the good and the bad

got my starter box in Belgium, preordered in dec
240 foot strips, 24 cannons and 24 officers
BP rules, flags, extra booklet and extra generals

so far so good

first 10 strips in paint, looks OK

now the not so good

beyond the starter box, everything is horrible expensive
the ridiculous prices for extra command strips
15,26 euro for 5 strips ??? what a rip off

the starter kit went from 90£ in dec to 115€ (still in preorder) and now to 127€ (no longer preorder)

so roughly 0.5€ per strip in the starter box now to 3€ per strip for extra command in preorder (by the look of it will go up after preorder time)

and don't mention the limber, 15,26€ for 1 while Kallistra does 2 for 6£

guess where the rest of my ACW money will go

Alex

Wow. That's a real screwing.

thanks for sharing the great review! I really look forward to getting a starter set!

I have been wanting to get into ACW wargaming for years, tried once and couldn't bring myself to pop that much for a new period. I am glad warlord chose to do this.

this seemed like a great way to do it. books, pieces and starter terrain, plus N scale trees are cheap! could not believe how cheap they are to 28mm trees.

I agree the cav and the rest of the 2nd and 3rd releases sticker shock is huge.

I am glad they are adding the command strips, its still worth it to go to 3 base regiments, just figured into the cost of the overall box. Of course, i may just not care about a unit having a flag. i am getting rather ambivalent when it comes to this new scale, realizing i will be the only one who cares who is playing with them. we will see.

the casualties are very cool, but dice work just fine.

Not sure what to do about the cavalry.

See my quick summary of unit sizes for EPIC ACW.

link

Am just about to do an assessment of alternative cavalry figures using Kallistra packs.

I'm not going to knock the concept or the value of the starter box, for my £90.00 GBP I got 2.400 + figures, not sure how much per figure that works out but's not a lot!

Zouave and iron Brigade boxes at £40.00 GBP each though? I mean who needs that many Zouaves for a start! What I can forsee is gamers sharing the purchase of boxes or buying individual sprues as they appear on eBay as they inevitable will at slightly inflated prices.

I like the idea and Warlords marketing strategy is tried and tested, they start low, drag you in and the it you with all the extras, worked perfectly with Bolt Action.

I'm not into Black Powder being a devoted F&F (brigade) old timer so I just wish it was easier to cut these strips in half.

Lee.

Nice. I've been itching to get these guys but I have so much on the painting table right now. Going to be a summer purchase for me.

Hello all, thanks for the feedback.

I agree about the expansion boxes. Unfortunately it seems that Warlord is attempting to go the GW route and start off with a great value starter set and then jack up the prices on all of the supplemental stuff.

I have to believe that they realize gamers will use places like Kallistra to round out their armies instead of paying Warlord's prices.

As I said in the review, the starter set is a great way to get a bunch of infantry, buildings, and flags plus the rulebooks. Then you can supplement with suitable 15mm terrain and 12mm miniatures from other mini. companies, etc.

@Grambo,

I guess the idea of the Zouaves box is that they are generic enough that you can use them for both sides. If I recall correctly, the Confederacy's Wheat's Tigers and the Union's 5th New York were Zouave regiments that both wore the fez and tassel and similar enough cut jackets and trousers.

In that small of a scale you could get away with a lot if the uniforms had some differences, as long as you got the primary colors of the units right.

In 13.5 scale you could paint up some in the 5th NY red fez and blue jackets and red pantaloons, and then do Wheat's Tigers in their red fezes, blue jackets and striped pantaloons.

I'm sure there were other Zouave regiments that adopted the basic tasseled fez and short jacket that could also be made from this boxed set.

So that large brigade boxed set Warlord is selling could prove to be pretty useful.

If I play it, I will continue to use metal 10mm from Bob Moreno at Good Ground.
Though I have not even stocked any copies at my store. Too pricey.

Baranovich – just worth bearing in mind the vast majority of Civil war soldiers never saw a Zouave in 'fancy uniform' :) The odd base or two among a hundred bases would seem about right, but wargamers do love a zouave!

I'll probably still pre order the box and indeed the Iron Brigade and then just ebay what I don't need.

The skirmish and dismounted trooper packs look good don't they?

grambo-

Quite true about about the rarity of seeing actual Zouave uniforms in the field. I agree about the ratio of having a base here or there among the vast majority of plain blue uniforms.

Yeah, the expansion boxes do look pretty cool. However I did some price calculating and for me it's going to be more feasible to utilize Kallistra for some of the supplemental stuff. Works out that you get more minis. from Kallistra for a lower price, so I don't mind doing some individual figure gluing to bases as opposed to having them already multi-based as one piece like Warlord's.

Hey by the way. You mentioned doing reenacting in the 90s. I was in the 8th Conn. Co A and later the 14th Conn. Go. G from about 1993-2002.

I am sure we were not only at many of the same larger events in Pa. and Va., but I most likely met you personally. I remember camping near the Bucktails and sharing campfires on more than one occasion!

I was at the Bensalem, Pa. event in 1995, I think I fell in with the 12th Mass. At Gettysburg in 1998 the we went down and portrayed the 14th Conn. at the angle for July 3rd.

Did you guys ever do events up in Conn. or Mass? Or was there more than one group doing the 42nd Pa? I seem to remember a Mass. based on as well as a Pa. based one but it's been so long I don't remember.

My set arrived yesterday
Unfortunately both generals standard bearers were snapped at the waist
Just wondering if anyone has a suggestion on best glue to use (I'm guessing super glue but thought I'd check)
Thanks
Gary

The standard bearers are cast in two parts.

Carefully applied superglue should do but a good contact cement will work too.

Starter set is indeed a good value. I expected the rules to be something different for some reason, ie other than BP2. Some good background info and over all a good deal. Just not over thrilled with the rules.

Gary Flack

Unfortunately both generals standard bearers were snapped at the waist

Now I've opened my packets I see that you are right. The standard bearer figures do appear to be snapped off at the waist.

I can see that in others pictures too. Is there a generic problem here?

I wonder what Warlord Games will say about it.

I have raised a 'ticket' with Warlord Games about the snapped off figures.

Jim
Thanks for that
My brother suggested they were probably cast multipart to aid removal from moulds
& It seemed a simple fix to glue so I didn't think it worth bothering warlord as I thought the collective tmp mind would have a simple solution as to best glue
But I shall await your ticket reply with interest
Gary

Gary
I thought multi-part too but the join is a rough break and doesn't look planned. I'll let you know what happens.

As it happens I plan to use Kallistra figures for commanders.

Heya folks,

Just my two cents but I don't think the generals blisters have broken standard bearers.

It looks like they were meant to come in two pieces since the flag pole is so thin and fragile, it wouldn't have been able to lie as flat if the model was all one piece.

On mine, the torsos have a chunk of flash underneath that is square in shape. The bottom half with the horse is flat with a bit of mold line.

There's no way those two pieces were ever originally together as one piece, the square chunk of flash doesn't correspond to any type of "hole" or matching breaking point. If that chunk of flash were attached to the bottom half of the model the standard bearer's waistline wouldn't have been able to be flush with the bottom half of his body.

They are multi-part.

The Grant, Meade and mtd standard in metal for $10 USD???? Gulp! Wow!

@takeda333,

Yeah, that's a bit of a slap, I agree.

With Kallistra you can get a set of six metal mounted commander personalities for about $5.00 USD.

Yikes.

I have had a response from Warlord Games.

'It is a 2 part casting and is a simple job to superglue it', they said.

I disagree as the pieces do not line up easily.

I expect I will cut the standard pole away and insert a piece of wire.

Jim

@Jim,

That confirms what I surmised. But you are 100% correct, the two parts don't line up well at all. On mine one part has a huge, square chunk of flash and the other part is mostly flat but has a jagged surface. So both have to be flattened and sanded to get a good join.

And wow yeah, the standard poles are so darn fragile. No way those would survive any amount of gaming before they snapped off. I agree that wire or brass rod is the way to go with those!

I have cut away the two standard poles and replaced them with a wire pole.

Relatively easy to do. Take care with cutting or drilling the resin as it does not behave like hard plastic. It is softer and will bend away from pressure.

Champion guys
Thanks for that
When I get far enough in the painting progress I shall take your advice
Good luck with your painting
Gary

wow!

thanks for all the information! lots of good ways to look at all this.

I wonder if kallistra, feels like its their birthday?

@general Kirchner – I was thinking that too! I have seen videos with some epic command figures replaced with Kallistra and they are a perfect match. Business will be booming and I think Warlord may have missed a trick here?

Jim Duncan, I never got the resin Generals with my starter box but given what I read here will probably go with Kallistra.