"GQ3 Scale Question" Topic

Hi all,

I've recently got into Naval Wargaming via Warlord Game's Black Seas and Victory at Sea. VaS is a nice little game but I'm in the mood for something with a little more crunch and depth, so I've had a look around and GQ3 seems to fit the bill of having tactical depth but still being playable. Also, as much as I love Warlord's 1/1800 ship models, I've decided to switch down to 1/3000 to try and avoid the "car park" effect you get in a VaS game.

The only thing putting me off is the scale. At 1cm to 100 yards, GQ3 seems to require a much bigger board than what I'm capable of supplying. The rulebook seems to suggest using 10' by 10' as a playing area! Unfortunately living where I do in the UK, a 10' by 10' board just isn't feasible in my house. I currently use a 6' by 4', and at a push I can double that up to 8' by 6'. At the suggested scale and on my current table, I'd be looking at a surface about 10 miles by 6 miles ish. Which isn't great.

Does anybody play GQ3 on smaller tables? Or has anybody tried adapting the scales to be a bit smaller? Maybe one or two inch to a thousand yards? How would it play at these scales?

For reference, most of the games we'll be playing will be based around a campaign set in the Atlantic Ocean between German surface raiders and the Royal Navy. So realistically we won't be using more than 5 or 6 ships a side at most. No Jutland style large fleet battles here!

Works fine on a 6x4 for me.

Even at the standard scale? What size battles do you generally go for? It seems like everything starting 10 miles or less from each other would lead to pretty short battles.

The 1cm = 100yds scale does require a relatively large playing area, especially for a daytime engagement. Fortunately I have a fairly large (7' x 12') table, and it works well for 1/2400 scale ships. There are play aids (rulers/turn gauges) for smaller scales (e.g. 0.5 cm = 100yds), which I would think would work fine with smaller scale ships.

You could look into the Navwar 1/6000 line of ships. They are really very nice, cheap, easy to paint and have a tiny footprint.
I had hundreds of them before my eyes couldn't tell a DD from a BB!
Also, all my peers were collecting 1/2400 so…

I've got a decent sized table, 6x9, but I just switched to playing at the 0.5cm = 100yds and I like it a lot. I don't see any negatives at the reduced scale and I like that there's more room for maneuver. I ordered the smaller turn gauges and while waiting for them I just printed out a couple from the ODGW website and they work until I receive the plastic one, although as I didn't bother backing them with cardboard they're flimsy.

One more note, the reason I switched is that I transitioned from the Pacific, where essentially all ship to ship engagements were at night, i.e. short ranged, to the Atlantic/Med where they are daylight fights. With 30-40K yard spotting ranges the table wasn't big enough although it was fine for night fighting.

Oh so they do actually have game aids for the smaller scale do they?

I use GQ3 with 1/4800 and 1/6000 models and they work quite well on a 6'x4' table with 0.5cm = 100 yards pretty much handling everything.

Oh so they do actually have game aids for the smaller scale do they?

They have turn gauges at odgw.com/home.html for the smaller scales. For measuring you can print out measuring sticks from their download section or do as I do and just divide the knots/2 to get cm. In this case I find that easier than noodling around with specific measurement sticks.

For WW2 using GQ3 I use the smaller scale 0.5cm to 100 yards with 1:3000 ships. The gauges for that scale are on the ODGW site.
The standard scale works fine for WW1 where ranges are a bit shorter.
I usually use a 6' square table and that is ample.

I fairness, I did not say that I also do WW1 mostly too or smaller ship actions in WW2

If you decide to try 1/6000 there are free STL files for a lot of WWII ships on Wargame Vault in that scale.

Thanks.

John

We play GQ 3 with 1/2400 ships using the .5 cm scale on an 8' X 6' foot table with few problems.

With doing what Shag says, you will need more space even with smaller ships IMO. Unless you want to start at full engagement range, which is scary for smaller ships or cruisers vs battleships.
Many of the 1/2400 games I have played were on a floor.

Mein Panzer by them has a telescoping scale. That would fix your problems too.

@BritTorent

Actually, you can play General Quarters 3 (Third Edition) as if it's scale-independent. That's because its charts and tables use full-scale units of 1000s-of-yards and knots.

So all you have to do is decide on a table scale (as opposed to model scale) that looks good, and then come up with a measuring device to support it. For example, for WW2 with 1/6000 scale ships, I prefer the table scale of 1" = 1000 yards. So I use an inches/feet tape measure, converting in my head to 1000s of yards; thus 1" = 1000 yards, 20" = 20,000 yards etc.

You can also use a permanent marker to mark up the tape measure, if your desired table scale has a more complicated relationship than this. So for example you could make 1.5" be equal to 1000 yards. In that case, use the marker to put a "1" at the 1.5" point on the tape measure, put a "2" at the 3" point on the tape measure, etc. Then when gaming, read off the number and again multiply by 1000 yards.

WRT movement, I use an old pair of drafting dividers, set for an interval equivalent to 5 knots of speed. If instead you wanted to use a template for movement, just make one to your desired scale out of cardboard. The key to this is to calculate, for your ground scale, the distance covered at 5 knots of speed (5 nautical miles per hour or 10,000 yards per hour). This is just simple arithmetic, based on your chosen ground scale, and the length of a GQ3 turn. For example, at my preferred scale of 1" = 1000 yards, the 5-knot distance on my movement template/divider would be 1". So a ship going 30 knots would move 6" in a turn. I will come up with a formula for this and post it later, as I have to run now.

MH

I also play as hinds does, in 1:6000 at 1"=1000 yards for most games with speed in 5 knot/1" increments. Pretty well suitable for division fights on a 4'x4' table, although if I have more space I'll absolutely use it.

BTW, my scale-independent procedure above doubles the General Quarters movement allowance, which restores it to scale. (The standard General Quarters movement allowances are halved from scale, allegedly for playability reasons, which IMHO produces unhistorical tactical distortions).

As I said, if the OP @BritTorrent reads my post, is not math-oriented, and wants the formula for calculating 5-knot increments, let me know.

MH

I am a big fan of game play in true scale (where "true scale = a ship model or formation thereof occupying a length on the tabletop approximately consistent with the ground scale in use). It is amazing how many headaches this approach removes. To play a "largish" action in GQ3 or its WW1 analog "Fleet Action Imminent", I would suggest use of 1:6000 scale models with a ground scale of 2.5 inches = 1,000 yards.

Using Figurehead's 1:6000 models, Hipper's 1AG in a "nose-to-tail" line ahead formation = 8.66 inches in length, equivalent to about 3,500 yards on the tabletop. Historically, the length of 1AG's column would be approx 3,200 yards (assuming a 500 meter interval between ships).
Close enough for government work, and quite sufficient to eliminate gunnery range distortions.

Assuming 2.5 inches = 1,000 yards and three minute game turns, 1AG at its maximum Jutland dash speed of 26 knots would move a manageable 6.5 inches (which conveniently works out to 1/4-inch per knot!). Easy to measure.

Gunnery-wise 4 feet = very slightly more than 19,000 yds, which is about as far as anyone fired at Jutland. Practically all gunnery can be managed using a suitably calibrated four foot long gunnery stick – no messy tape measures. And a six foot wide table will provide ample maneuvering room for both sides.

FWIW.

B