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"Black Soldiers in the Spanish Army?" Topic


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John Tyson06 Mar 2021 8:32 a.m. PST

Question: Were there African black soldiers in the Spanish Army during the Peninsula War?

I got information from somewhere that the Spanish 6th Regiment (Africa) was made up of black soldiers. I'm currently painting up an Africa battalion. I chose the Africa regiment because I wanted to have a battalion with black soldiers, but now I can't find that the Spanish Army ever had black soldiers. I don't know if I read it somewhere or just dreamed it that Spain had black soldiers.

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP06 Mar 2021 9:16 a.m. PST

Hmm, haven't found anything on the Spanish army, but the British army had a number of black soldiers, especially the in the ranks of the 69th and 73rd Regiments that had served in Jamaica:
link

Other recruits from the West Indies could show up throughout the army (and navy):
link

MightyOwl06 Mar 2021 9:33 a.m. PST

I think it's unlikely firstly because regiments like África and America were recruited in Spain for service in those regions.
I checked the regiment's official history on the Spanish MOD website and it makes no mention of this.
I have read through the Conde de Clonard's Historia Organica del Ejercito Español and he makes no mention of this either to my recollection.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP06 Mar 2021 9:40 a.m. PST

I've never read that, and my sources don't support it. Could they have had some Black musicians?

There is a soldier company in Spain who makes collectable 1/30 (60mm) figures, and their Africa Regiment soldier is definitely Spanish.

Bobsyouruncle Supporting Member of TMP06 Mar 2021 10:10 a.m. PST

Perhaps it's the Neapolitan 7th Infantry Regiment that you are thinking of. They were created from the French Pioneers Noire, which were all black. They served in the 1812 Russian campaign but remained in Danzig.
Bob

Personal logo Dan Cyr Supporting Member of TMP06 Mar 2021 11:54 a.m. PST

Many units of the period had black musicians and standard bears, to stand out when on parade.

Considering that most of the major powers (Britain and France for example) had had black slaves in their countries for centuries, I would assume that there were individual black soldiers and sailors in units.

Doubt about entire units outside of units raised with white officers and NCOs in Africa, Asia and the West Indies.

Units raised in Italy might be an exception however.

Personal logo Lluis of Minairons Sponsoring Member of TMP06 Mar 2021 2:17 p.m. PST

Not any one as rank & file as far as I know, except in the Caribbean.

SHaT198406 Mar 2021 2:43 p.m. PST

What about Spanish Moors? Who'd been there for 600 or so years??? Seems a bit one sided question… are you suggesting Spanish are white?
d

Personal logo enfant perdus Supporting Member of TMP06 Mar 2021 2:43 p.m. PST

Outside of musicians (in reality, officers' servants), I would consider it unlikely in the extreme. In the colonies, units were strictly segregated such that even free Blacks were formed in distinct companies. I don't know if the Royal cedulas that codified acceptable contact amongst the "races" applied in Iberian Spain as well as Spanish colonies, but it at least illustrates the mindset.

The thing about the British Army is it was never officially segregated. Being an all volunteer force prior to 1916, it could (and did) reject or accept according to the whims or needs of the recruiting party. Hence, the noticeable spikes of Black British troops during times of manpower crises, especially the American Revolution, the Napoleonic Wars, and 1914-15.

Personal logo Dan Cyr Supporting Member of TMP06 Mar 2021 2:48 p.m. PST

This might be of interest regarding British sailors: link

Perhaps the fact that British warships traveled to ports that had large populations of people of color, or that they would "press" sailors off of merchant ships of all nations, might account for the numbers of such sailors known.

Florida Tory06 Mar 2021 2:50 p.m. PST

Not any one as rank & file as far as I know, except in the Caribbean

Also, East Florida.

Lilian06 Mar 2021 2:57 p.m. PST

there were blacks as individuals in many european armies but as whole corps/units in Europe it is quite limited to France from 1792 American Hussars to 1815 African Chasseurs (and Naples but from former French black soldiers) who had several black units and until officers and generals, not only soldiers servants and musicians

the only Spanish Army's «African» unit of that time I know was the moorish muslims auxiliaries of the mogataces cavalry company from Oran since 1732 still active during the Napoleonic era in Ceuta after the loss of the algerian place in 1792

Mogataces company of Ceuta 1805

the moors were expelled from the Peninsula after 1609-1614

for whole Spanish units from black people you have to turn your attention to the black militias of the Americas of course from Luisiana to South America it existed many units

Tango0106 Mar 2021 3:48 p.m. PST

Plenty of Black Soldiers in the Spanish Army on Napoleon Era… in America…

picture

picture

Peru…

With promises of liberty. The enrollment of slaves in the Peruvian independence war, 1820-1825

link

Chile…

Mulatto craftsmen and meritorious soldiers. The Infantes de la Patria Battalion in the Chilean War of Independence, 1795-1820

link

Argentina.

Forgotten actors of the revolution : the Rio de la Plata and its Blacks

link

Venezuela

The Fears of a Revolutionary Mantuan: Martín Tovar Ponte in 1814 (Province of Caracas)

link

In General…

Soldiers-slaves and the Wars of Independence in Spanish America

link

link

link

link

Racism in Spain? The black general of the Spanish Army who fought against the separatists of Cuba

link

Armand

42flanker06 Mar 2021 6:11 p.m. PST

The Regimento de Infanteria 'Africa' was so called because of its service in the Spanish possessions in North Africa, rather than because of its being composed of 'black' soldiery.

As for the 'Moors,' much confusion has been caused by Shakespeare's stereotype.

The Muslim populace of 'Moorish' Spain were composed, in varying proportions, of Arabs, North African Berbers, and Hispanic Christian inhabitants who converted after the conquest. The number of emirs of Cordoba whose mothers were Christians from the north was emblematic of the ethnically diverse culture of 'al Andalus.' Black African soldiery in the service of the Berber empires of the C11th and C12th would also have made a contribution to the gene pool on both sides of the Strait but not enough to influence the essentially 'mediterranean' make-up of the people in either case. Although there was some absorption of Muslim population as the forces of the 'Reconquista gradually advanced south, in the form of the so-called mudejares, with the hardening of cultural divisions in the C13th nd C14th, the mixing of Muslim and Christian 'stock' became less and less likely until the persecution and ultimate expulsion of the remaining 'Morisco population reduced that likelihood to zero.

SHaT198406 Mar 2021 8:32 p.m. PST

>>the moors were expelled from the Peninsula after 1609-1614

Moors interbred with local populations and were never 'evicted' except in certain minds as a policial entity. Despite the inquisition and other atrocities perpetrated most races mixed freely.

Racism wasn't as perceptable except by 'authorities' like 'The Church' who must be obeyed…

>>Shakespeare's stereotype. Who's Shakespeare?
So what is a Mediterranean anyway, if not a mixture?
Are Provincial French, Greeks, Maltese, etc. anything at all? All conquered tima and again by invading parties…

42flanker07 Mar 2021 3:22 a.m. PST

I wouldn't disagree with most of that except to say that 'Moor' is not a very helpful term. It seems to be misunderstood and has given rise to an inaccurate stereotype. Replace it with 'Muslims' and at least you have a descriptor that can be measured. What is your definition of a Moor?

The 'Moriscos' the former muslim population of Granada, forcibly converted, and living in identifiable communities were forcibly expelled from the kingdom of Spain in 1609.

William Shakespeare was a playwright originally from Warwickshire, but most Londonders come from somewhere else. How many Moors, or Muslims, he had met history does not relate. (He did, though, have a thing for his 'Dark Lady') Turks were more in fashion at the turn of the C16th.

Lilian07 Mar 2021 6:33 a.m. PST

if you want but you belong to the english-speaking-Shakespearing world,

«moros» that I translated literally into «moors» is still largely used to name the muslims of both sides of the Strait of Gibralta in past and today Spain, the Moroccan as well as the North African

Diccionario de la lengua española
Edición del Tricentenario
Actualización 2020

dle.rae.es/moro
Del lat. Maurus 'mauritano', y este del gr. Μαῦρος Maûros; propiamente 'oscuro', por alus. al color de su piel.

1. adj. Natural del África septentrional frontera a España. U. t. c. s.

2. adj. Perteneciente o relativo al África septentrional frontera a España o a los moros.

3. adj. Que profesa la religión islámica. U. t. c. s.

4. adj. Dicho de una persona: Musulmana, que habitó en España desde el siglo VIII hasta el XV. U. t. c. s.

5. adj. Perteneciente o relativo a la España musulmana del siglo VIII hasta el XV.

6. adj. Dicho de una persona: Musulmán de Mindanao y de otras islas de Malasia. U. m. c. s.

moro de paz

1. m. moro marroquí que servía de intermediario para tratar con los demás moros en los presidios españoles de África.

2. m. Persona que tiene disposiciones pacíficas y de quien nada hay que temer o recelar.

moro de rey

1. m. Soldado de a caballo del ejército regular del Imperio marroquí.

moro mogataz

1. m. Soldado indígena al servicio de España en los antiguos presidios de África.

moros y cristianos

1. m. pl. Fiesta pública que se ejecuta vistiéndose algunos con trajes de moros y fingiendo lid o batalla con los cristianos.

Compañía de Moros Mogataces de Ceuta 1807


John Tyson07 Mar 2021 10:18 a.m. PST

Thanks to all who responded to my question about Black Soldiers in the Spanish Army. I found your posts well thought out and helpful.

John T.

Lilian07 Mar 2021 11:31 a.m. PST

I remember a source mentioning that it existed similar units of Pardos or Morenos (black and mulattos) than in América in the city of Cádiz in Andalucia but in the 17th and 18th century, so before the Napoleonic period

Au pas de Charge07 Mar 2021 11:39 a.m. PST

You could always do what an African American gamer once did which is to paint an entire Austrian Napoleonic army in sub Saharan skin tones. It looked great with the white uniforms.

4th Cuirassier07 Mar 2021 12:43 p.m. PST

I was under the impression that Moors were from Mauretania.

SHaT198407 Mar 2021 3:21 p.m. PST

>> >>Shakespeare's stereotype. Who's Shakespeare?<<
== RHETORICAL,,,,

>>He did, though, have a thing for his 'Dark Lady')<<
Well, he had more sense than I gave him credit for then…

The 'exact' interpretation of 'race' wasn't what I was referring to but the general 'populace' evolution and integration.

>>«moros» that I translated literally into «moors» is still largely used… <<

Thank you. ;-)

d

Tango0107 Mar 2021 3:38 p.m. PST

By memory … after the British first invation in Buenos Aires … a group of Spanish military prisoners were transported to England … once there … when Spain began its war against the French … they were armed and sent to the Iberian Peninsula as a unit under Spanish command … that unit (Regiment?) was called "San La Muerte" … (I painted them and played with them a while ago) … among its members there were a few "morenos" and "mulatos" ….

By the way … Simon Bolivar had black blood in his veins ….


Armand

42flanker07 Mar 2021 4:11 p.m. PST

@Lillian I wasn't addressing you but your citation from dle.rae demonstrates perfectly my point.

if you want but you belong to the english-speaking-Shakespearing world

Well, yes, that is the language in which we are communicating.
If I had known we were communicating in Castellano…

In my experience, 'moro' is a word that is tip-toed around in contemporary Spain, not least because of the despective association with Franco's Moroccan regulares of the Civil War period. marroqui seems to be generally preferable.

John Tyson07 Mar 2021 4:48 p.m. PST

MiniPigs said:
"You could always do what an African American gamer once did which is to paint an entire Austrian Napoleonic army in sub Saharan skin tones. It looked great with the white uniforms.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MiniPigs, thank you! Since I had half the "Africa" battalion already painted as black soldiers, I've decided to complete the rest of the battalion with black soldiers.

My reason is so convoluted that some may not understand. One of the five most influential men in my life (I'm 74) was a warrant officer that I served with during my US Army career (1966-1989). Mr. Wooden was one of the two best soldiers I served with and he was why I wanted to become a warrant officer. Mr. Wooden, a small unimposing man, was admired and respected by all, and not just because he'd received a Silver Star for valor and three Purple Hearts for wounds. Mr. Wooden was a great leader and he had a simple wisdom about him that was unmatched. I remember when I was a young soldier, I had been sitting on a machine gun position for four hours in the cold freezing rain. When I was relieved, I came into Mr. Wooden's tent to get some coffee and warm up. I said to Mr. Wooden, "Chief, my mother taught me better than to sit out in the rain!" Mr. Wooden, in his simple wisdom gently said to me, "Tyson, your mother taught you well. But remember, there was a soldier sitting in the rain so she could." …I had no response. There was no response.

So, as convoluted as it may seem, my Spanish "Afica" battalion will all be black soldiers in honor of Mr. Wooden and other good buddies I had. God bless them all.

Again, thanks to all of you who responded to my question. I mean no disrespect whatsoever. Thank you so much for your informative posts.

John T.

regimientosdeamerica07 Mar 2021 6:02 p.m. PST

No way.

Rudysnelson07 Mar 2021 6:22 p.m. PST

In America, blacks in Spanish units had a long history. When Spain controlled Louisiana and New Orleans during the American Revolution, they spelled out a policy that was used throughout the Americas. Militia units were where most of the black troops were found. Militia were grouped into three types. White origins tended to be middle and upper class gentry. This is where you would find mounted militia units and artillery as well as infantry. The next level were the units formed of mixed blood troops. These were effective and were used outside the home region. The next group were the negro troops which could range from infantry companies to labor construction companies. The black companies were noted as being very effective as search parties looking for and capturing escaped slaves. The black companies were considered free men.
After the American Revolution Spain continued to use this policy in Florida, the Dominican and South American provinces. The use of these companies in Florida were noted in the Spanish war with the Free Muskogee Nation until Britain which sides in 1808 and supported Spain as opposed to the Muskogee Creek tribes. In one battle mention was made of black fighters being on both sides during the battle. A mention of the militia units were made when Jackson attacked Pensacola. Florida militia units were not as large as those in Louisiana.
Also some Florida black fighters opposed the invasion by Georgia volunteer units during the Patriot war.
One cannot forget the successful revolt by Haiti blacks against the French and loyal blacks were transferred to the French army in Europe. Then sent to Naples later.

Au pas de Charge08 Mar 2021 9:47 a.m. PST

MiniPigs, thank you! Since I had half the "Africa" battalion already painted as black soldiers, I've decided to complete the rest of the battalion with black soldiers.

Yeah, go for it. You'll get a lot of joy and satisfaction from it and it'll drive the racists crazy; it's like twice as much fun.

Lilian08 Mar 2021 10:52 a.m. PST

contrary to others European kingdoms, in Andalucia southern Spain it existed slavery on the metropolitan soil and there were black slaves,
maybe more black slaves were deported to peninsular old Spain than New Spain from mid-15th century to the end of the 16th century

this local black community and slavery on the spanish metropolitan soil existed 3 centuries until early 19th century, despite greatly reduced after mid-18th century it seems

that is why I found a «Battalion of Negroes of Cadiz» (disbanded in???) in such area before the Napoleonic Era

In Spain even after 1614 there were still "moros", as "moros" prisoners of war converted into slaves until c.1786
but there were enough peninsular "moros" to be again expelled after 1712 in Andalucia and in Murcia until 1770 when their mosque in Cartagena ordered to be destroyed

such translation is not mine, they choose to translate moros by moors

El intercambio de moros cortados entre España y Marruecos tras la firma del Tratado de 1767. La Comunidad de Musulmanes de Cartagena

The rescue of Moors (moros cortados) between Spain and Morocco after the 1767 Treaty. The case of Moorish Community in Cartagena
PDF link

42flanker09 Mar 2021 4:17 a.m. PST

The question is not so much the presence of muslims (c.f 'moros cortados') in Spain after the expulsion of the Moriscos from the Kingdom of Granada in the early C17th, but A) the degree to which the 700-year heritage of Muslim culture in the peninsula might as a matter of course suppose a significant proportion of black faces in any of the King of Spain's regiments-
and B) -returning to the OP question regarding the Regimento de Africa – whether the regimental title specifically denoted personnel recruited from non-white populations in the Maghreb or western Africa.

-the answer to both questions being, I would submit, 'No.'

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