"Joining the 3d party." Topic

Jumped in with both feet. My adventure in 3d priniting on my blog. Stop by and have a look.

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Borderguy190 I loved your article. Makes me want to go buy 3D printers.

Fantastic how to and what can go wrong and then fix it article.

What are your two new printers? Doubles of the current two?

That's great that you documented and shared your experience.
I went with the Elegoo Mars 2 Pro because I checked out YouTube for reviews and how-to guides and it made sense to me. The Photon appears to be almost identical and is working awesome for you.

I will probably get a pla printer in the next 12 months or so.

Thanks for that post – found it really interesting to read the starting steps of this new aspect to your hobby.

I did not know about the longer cure time needed for the first bit of the resin or the temp constraint for the filament.

As for buying one / two / many printers myself? I have to say no as my model pile is slowly going down (more eBay than paint sadly) and like you I would print lots and lots and lots :-) Similar to you, I have collected thousands of rule books in pdf / word / jpg etc over the years and feel I would go down the same route with object files.

@Dragon6- I wish! That would make sense, wouldn't it, since I've figured out those 2. One is a clone of the CR-10, similar o Ender 3 but about double the print area, and the other is a Robo3D 1+. Got them form a friend, and not sure if i will keep them or sell them and buy more of what I know.

@Bandolier- I noticed that after getting the Photon. And I am sold on elegoo resin. Much cheaper, and has an almost rubbery feel to the black that seems more durable.

Andrew B- Yeah, I was on a third Kickstarter and still no printer thinking "what have I done?, and Why?" I totally get it. At the max possible print rate it will be at least a year before I could print one of every file I have. And all of the modular stuff needs multiples of the pieces to build things. I think one of the larger clorehaven builds needs 400 individual parts!

I appreciate the reads and comments.

"I started researching best printers, easiest to use, and most idiot-proof." A man after my own heart!

Buying and using a 3d printer is one of those things that has been growing on me over the past few years. Yeah, I have more than enough figures to keep me painting for years. Yeah, I can build scenery, and again I could spend years on this. But still there is the growing idea that I should get a 3d printer. I suspect it would be like a scanner: something that I thought about and fretted about the expense and could I justify it with a family to raise and all that. Now, of course, I (by which I mean we) couldn't get along without the scanner.

Thanks for a great discussion of the technology!

Grelber

Your welcome Grelber!

I'll jump down this rabbit hole, but not for a few more years. I'm hoping by then they're even more idiot proof :)

I'm looking at taking the leap, and after reading your entry, have narrowed it down to either the End 3-V2, or the Elegoo Mars Pro….

Decisions, Decisions….

Very interesting stuff. Planning on getting my first printer soon. Have looked at various options. Dont have the space for a resin setup so am going for a prusa mk3. Will make it harder to do some 15mm stuff but will be mainly doing buildings which I think will be ok

@ captaincold69- seems to be moving that way!

@ Murphy- or, get both!

@ badwargamer- Should be fine. I've seen some really nice stuff with filament at 15mm scale. It might take a little work to dial it in, but you'll be able to print great stuff in that scale.

@Murphy,
Those two complement each other. An FDM printer like the Ender 3 is good at printing large pieces of terrain. A resin printer like the Mars is good at printing small, detailed miniatures.

Dont have the space for a resin setup so am going for a prusa mk3.

My Elegoo Mars has a smaller footprint than a Prusa Mk.3.

Ah yes….when I say space for the setup I was keeping my post short. The full story would be I do not have a space where I can have a resin printer due to the fumes and the chemical etc needed to wash the prints and dry them etc. When we have got rid if the kids I will surely get one ..or two :)

Waiting for a Saturn here.

Apart from the obvious technical and quality issues, I think speed is definitely the other main downside to 3d printing.

I know people leave them on overnight, but some are more firesafety conscious. Also waiting all night for a failed print doesn't sound like fun.

Until they are as fast as pouring a mould, I'm out.

Now hit me with the latest and greatest to prove me wrong.

I'll add that cost may be another factor. Low end printers seem affordable, but for quality the price can be high.

Proprietary material is also an issue, especially as tech companies, or more frequently their product lines, come and go.

I do remember a build your own 3d printer part works magazine from a few years back. People who followed through would probably have finished it by now and have a $1,000 USD obsolete paper weight. You could probably buy a better one now for far less, I assume.

Staying on the side lines is as much fun as jumping in, only you won't get hurt.

Resin printers are where the quality and speed become much more manageable. For about $400 USD you can now get a resin 4K printer that can produce a standard 28-32mm figure in under an hour.

And since resin uses light to cure and not a moving extractor to deposit the next layer of plastic, the number of minis you can fit on the build plate doesn't increase the time needed. So print one mini, or print 6 minis, it will still take about an hour.

As somebody who's done a fair bit of home resin casting I think I like the 3D printer better. I've had a CR-6 (fdm printer)for a few months now and like it. With anything there's a learning curve and failures but in general it's less work and mess than resin casting. I think I've had a lot less failures too but that might just be me. Take's a lot longer, yes but no need to make molds and store them. Plus if you want to modify something it can be done easier on the computer. Haven't wasted a bunch of time and material on new molds.

Advantages and disadvantages to any method. Nice to see them getting cheap enough for wide spread use and closer to usable right out of the box. Mine printed pretty good as soon as it was assembled. It wasn't until after I had it awhile that I started trying to push for better, faster prints and started giving myself a bit of a headache tweaking and tuning. Still haven't solved that completely but am starting to experiment with different filaments to see if that helps.

@ SeattleGamer- 28mm minis in under an hour? Wow! Thats crazy. I just printed a batch of 28mm multi-part models. Don't remember how long they took, but the quality is just as good as GW models.

@Zinkala- interesting points v resin casting. Molds must quickly become an issue.

As far as casting, I was thinking metal. Quicker than mixing resin and no waste, plus moulds are supposed to last longer.

I doubt prints can look as good as injected plastic. This is because metal moulds for plastic can be finished by hand if needed, so you can get rid of tool marks. Link some comparison shots if you have them. I would suspect the printer to be resin and experience?

Pics on my blog H Man.

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I had seriously considered getting into metal casting minis years ago. But you need specialized equipment for that too and my shop I had thought of doing it in collapsed in a storm. I've done simple drop casting of bullets and tried some minis in rtv molds but it didn't turn out great. For larger scale production spin casting is much faster but not really feasible for most hobbyists. Molds are large and relatively expensive and unless you're looking at making hundreds of copies not really worth it IMO. Plus making proper molds is an art in itself even if you have a model.

Woooooooo!!!!

No so fast.

Firstly thanks for the pic, the black bodies, but have they been cleaned up? The photos just a bit too low res, am I seeing lines or cleaned lines?

As for metal casting. 100% wrong. In a good way.

You do not need specialised equipment. I first started with plaster and woodputty moulds and a bean tin of burning metho and an old spoon. There's your specialised equipment.

I'm not sure what was wrong with the RTV moulds, but keep trying. Details please.

Spin casting is faster. It can be feasible.

Spin moulds are not really any expensive more than RTV. It depends what you use. I mixed tube of silastic liquid gasket with equal amount of talc to make a dough. Made a bunch of 6" moulds. Maybe 20 ish au each for 6-8 figures. Made a spin caster from a milk separator. Hand crank, of course. Easy. All you need is a decent spinning motor, old washing machine. I bet you could run a 6" rig as a fancy drill bit.

You don't have to produce 100s, a few figs or 10s can still be ok. I think the max mould cost per fig would be 20 au. Can be far less. Plaster, basically free. My recipe above about 3 dollars. You can also mix mediums, pour good RTV thinly, let set back with cheap tube silicon or gasket. The less cast needed the better, but should still work for many.

There is no art in mould making. Only persistence. But it is easy. I recommend castaldo quicksil. Two part equal amounts RTV dough. Non sticky, just baby oil residue. Quick work and set time. More expensive than other options, but easy as and a good hard silicon. Safe 0 mess, less a bit of oil. No need for release agent. Only good for block moulds, or as seperate inserts for larger moulds, due to fast work time, it also expressed oil for time, so you can't stick other things too it.

I also highly recommend the prince August kits. You get a flat bottomed ladle, mould clamp, talc, moulds and metal and instructions. A great gift idea. I got the fantasy one years back.

Hope this helps.

I'll admit to being wrong at times. Still think that a 3D printer would be easier for most people to handle. I was using Smooth On rtvs and resins. I think it cost me a couple dollars to make a mold for a 28 or 32mm mini and 15-20 cents a model after that. I used a syringe to inject the resin into the molds. When I tried enlarging the holes and just pouring in the hot metal I couldn't get good enough filling in the narrow parts.

Another plus to the 3D printer is the number of free stls out there. I've been printing fairly regularly for several months and have only spent $40 USD on stls so far.

What do you mean 'clean up' H Man? A good 3d print has very little to clean up. With the resin I use supports break off clean and I run a fingernail over the dot left on the model to remove it before curing. Simple.

And there are no visible lines. Anything you see is due wholly to my crappy phone. Again, a resin print is clean and smooth. I have had shoddy (ie free) files that have weird lines from the sculptor. As if they didn't smooth the model. These have zero extra lines.

They look filed or something. Probably just the effect of the camera.

Making a mould and casting it seems a lot simpler than buying a complicated machine set up, then learning how to use it.

Man, fire, metal. Its not rocket science.

A resin printer isn't that complicated. It literally assembled in under a minute. Took about 3 minutes to level the print head. And i can print far more complicated models than a hobbyist caster can produce. Sure, there are faster, better printers out there. I spent $180 USD on the printer. I've printed dozens of models, terrain pieces and map hexes. Show me how to cast map hexes and we have comparable tech. I know dozens of people 3d printing. So far I only know you as a caster.

Tmps a big place.

TMP link

So, you just sit and stare at the printer and it magically produces miniatures? You don't need to operate a computer? You can use a 386 to create these plastic like prints? You just pull it from the box and snap your fingers? There are no programmes to learn? There won't be endless upgrades or superseding technology?

I suggest going to wargaming or model events and talking to people there. Also try your local hobby store (probably not GW, but you never know). There are lots of people outside of the computer realm when it comes to figures, heck that's where it all began.

I'm not sure how complicated models are better. Sounds like companies trying push endless unnecessary upgrading to me. What can a printer do that can't be done with metal or resin and still be a necessity for wargaming?

I'm not sure the issue with map hexes? You make a mould and pour your material into it.

The H Man, now you're just getting silly. Where do you get your minis from to make molds? Do they just pop out of thin air? If so that's a trick I'd really like to learn. With any technology there will be a learning curve and materials and equipment. Most people already own a computer so I wouldn't include that in the set up costs. Yes, you will need to learn how to use some programs. The ones I've been using are free so I'm only out my time. Then you need to learn your printer's capabilities and how to adjust for them to get quality prints.

It also took me time and money to learn how to resin cast. I've dabbled with making my own models using various putties which took time and money to learn. I'm still not very good at it even with a couple decades of converting and kit bashing minis. I can do conversions but lack the skill to create whole minis that look the way I want. Just never put the time necessary into it.

As far as I know nobody is pushing anybody into endless upgrade cycles or forcing people to buy printers. Technology is advancing and the printers available now are much better than what you could buy a few years ago. I'm very happy with the quality of what my CR-6 SE can do and a resin printer can do even better detail. They are not a necessity but they can be a big asset. 3D printers don't do anything that can't be done with traditional methods but for a lot of us it's easier to do our sculpting on a computer.

Probably the biggest single advantage of printers over older methods is the ability to share files. All of the work one person does to design a model let's other people just pop it into their printer and make a model. Even if you teach someone how to sculpt or build their own models they still need the skills, material and equipment to make it.

How am I being silly?

Not everyone has a flash computer that will run these things, it seems a necessary purchase, as it won't work without one.

"As far as I know nobody is pushing anybody into endless upgrade cycles or forcing people to buy printers." All the share prices just took a dive.

You have to get or make figures for the process either way. Sculpting by hand requires little learning. Bend wire stick in Cork, mix putty, apply putty to wire, shape with desired tool, allow to set, repeat. Sounds pretty simple to me. Plus, if you only need one figure, there you go, no casting required.

The skills and cost of materials and equipment for sculpting, moulding and casting are far less than that of 3d printing (depending on materials used). People are just lazier these days and just want a machine to do it for them.

Not sure what sort of "flash computer" you need to run a slicer program. I can run the programs I'm using on a 6 year old laptop that wasn't very high speed when it was new. A better computer helps but I wouldn't call it a necessity.

I would disagree that sculpting by hand takes little learning. If it was so simple I would've been doing more for years. There's also a difference between knowing how to do something and actually being able to do it. I know how to do a lot of things but my own sculpts look closer to Gumby than Darksword. I'll also never paint like MIchealangelo even though I watched hundreds of how to paint videos.

Sculpting on a computer also takes some skill but it's a bit different. Different sculptors each have their on techniques and styles and computer graphics just opens up more options. I'd say it takes time to learn the skills to be good at either method. How much time would depend on the individual and their aptitude for whichever medium their using.

The costs for the resin I use is fairly similar to the cost of PLA per weight. It's been ages since I looked into metal prices and I haven't bought 3D printer resin so won't compare them. I'd say that the 3D prints are still somewhat cheaper than resin because they weigh less and are generally hollow. This is especially noticeable with buildings and larger models. I haven't actually weighed similar models to compare but the PLA ones feel like only half the weight. When making larger things I used fillers in my resin to reduce weight and cost but think that pla is still cheaper.

I spent several hundred dollars on a printer but have also spent many hundreds on silicone to make molds and different putties to make minis. A hundred dollars or so will get a person started resin casting but won't make a lot of minis. Or you can easily spend thousands on a spin caster, vulcaniser and molds for metal casting.

I'm popping out 28mm man sized minis and 1/285 tanks for pennies a model. I just did a pretty decent sized project for 1/285 WW2. It would have cost me hundreds of dollars to buy the same amount of minis and buildings. I think my total cost is running somewhere around $20 USD so far.

Lazier? Maybe, maybe not. Is it laziness to want to be able to make good looking minis without spending hours and days sculpting each one? With decent stls and a tuned in printer it is dead simple to make as many minis as you want. Depending on what supports are needed clean up can be comparable to resin models. Some literally take a second or 2 to clean up. From what I can see a resin printer will be able to print more intricate models than what I can cast with less effort. I also know of companies that do prototyping on printers and then make resin molds for their production models.

I'd say that 3D printing has a higher start up cost but over time would be cheaper than resin casting. Whichever method a person chooses will have associated costs both in material and time. The biggest drawback I see to 3D printing is the time for each print. Unless you're trying to mass produce things in a short time it's not that big of a deal. To mass produce things in resin or metal also takes time to set up although the final production may only take minutes instead of hours.

New owner of an Ender 3 v2 here,

anyone have any decent preformatted files for basic terrain items – or other cool stuff that they could share?

Interests run from Sci-Fi, to Pulp, to WW2.

@joedog,

thingiverse.com

myminifactory.com

minihoarder.com

link

Cheers Xin

Hate to disagree H Man, but very few people can sculpt well enough to cast their own minis. If you claim otherwise, well, where are they? There are relatively few competent sculptors out there compared to the hordes using 3d printers. No "flash computer" is necessary. The desktop I use to gather, store, and slice files cost the grand sum of $150 USD from Newegg. Nothing flash about it. And I can manipulate files I find or gather and then print them with relative ease. And store, literally, thousands of files. Thousands of molds would take a decent sized shed/barn to store.

The software is relatively simple to use. Many files are pre-supported. Adding supports in Chitubox is as simple as clicking a button on the screen. My 12yo nephew not only built his first FDM printer from parts, but he now sculpts his own files digitally. If you can manage to post on TMP, you can figure out 3d printing.

Endless upgrades? if you want. I've done nothing to mine and they work just fine. Software upgrades? Well, its free. Cant argue with free. 386? come on. Be real. There is nothing today that a 386 can handle.

And talking to people? Now you are just making assumptions. Been in the hobby since the mid 80s. Been to plenty of cons and gaming events. Only been to am official GW store 2x. I personally know several people that sculpt, and sculpt well thank you. I do some light sculpting. I'm not very good at it and will never have the time to dedicate to doing it well. My printers run while I paint or build other models, doing things I can't and adding to my hobby.

Lazier? That's another assumption. You are kind of a jerk, do you realize that H Man? Making assumptions and complaining about things you know next to nothing about. I'll let you reply one last time before I stifle you like I do all the other people who whine and complain and tell everyone else "you don't do it like me, so you are doing it wrong." Guys like you turn people off to the hobby.

Good day.

For everyone else adding to the conversation, thanks, and sorry for a delayed response. I just got off a deployment and have yet to fully catch up with life.

joedog, Xin gave you some good places to start. All my first files were freebies off thingiverse. Then I bought tons more off a couple Kickstarters, those I cant share, but you can check my blog to see which ones I have been printing. WW2, SciFi and fantasy so far.