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"President Biden Wants to Restore NATO. Macron Is Looking" Topic

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Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP22 Feb 2021 7:54 p.m. PST

…. to Move On

"President Joe Biden came to office promising to renew the spirit of the Western alliances born after World War II. It's his deliberate rejection of the Trump-and-Brexit era of hyper-nationalism and the America First bullying that has beleaguered Europe for five years.

"I'm sending a clear message to the world: America is back. The transatlantic alliance is back," Biden said in a Friday speech streamed from the White House to Western leaders listening in at this year's virtually-held Munich Security Conference. "And we are not looking backward, we are looking forward together."

But are they?…"
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arealdeadone22 Feb 2021 8:05 p.m. PST

Funny thing is many commentators agree that NATO came out of the Trump era better off as his aggressive attitude forced some of them to lift their game and invest in defence.

I would not be surprised if Biden's more "conciliatory" "approach sees NATO partners gut their defence spending as happened under previous administrations.


I agree with Macron. Europe needs to stop relying on US for defence.

And that would strengthen the west as Europe would be able to stand on its own feat.

NATO is no longer fit for purpose:

1. You have partner state Turkey threatening NATO partners including radar lockons on NATO ships.

An EU based defence alliance excludes Turkey.

2. The pointless out of region missions like Afghanistan and Iraq.

3. An insane expansionist bent within NATO bureaucracy that seems to almost want to go to war with Russia over Ukraine and Georgia.

4. Contradictory goals that makes NATO ineffective. EU is happy to deal with Russia, US is not. EU is far more conciliatory to Iran whilst US is not .

A separate EU defence mechanism allows for these contradictions.

5. Current NATO command and decision making system is clunky to the point of being unworkable at times. Eg over Kosovo US ran it's own airwar outside of NATO command structures, because NATO is so slow in decision making as everything has to be approved by each partner state.

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP22 Feb 2021 8:56 p.m. PST

So, a broke America is going to go back to footing 90% of the bill again for Euro defense? (hyperbole invoked here, though many Euro countries don't seem to be interested in their own defense)

Turkey should be kicked out of NATO, but then they'd need to worry about it invading in retribution, so…..

The last guy in charge at least got some to make false promises about increasing defense spending to protect the EU.

Striker22 Feb 2021 10:13 p.m. PST

Just disband it and be done.

Legion 423 Feb 2021 9:23 a.m. PST

Didn't the French leave NATO before under De Gaulle decades ago ?

Europe needs to stop relying on US for defence.
Bingo !

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP23 Feb 2021 10:06 a.m. PST

Yes, you are correct, Legion 4.

Personal logo 15mm and 28mm Fanatik Supporting Member of TMP23 Feb 2021 10:15 a.m. PST

NATO should have been dissolved back in 1990 when it lost its raison d'etre after the Soviet collapse.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP23 Feb 2021 11:11 a.m. PST



JMcCarroll23 Feb 2021 3:42 p.m. PST

Wrong enemy! China is number 1 enemy.

Legion 423 Feb 2021 4:50 p.m. PST

Yep …

Cuprum225 Feb 2021 8:24 p.m. PST

A lot of American (and not only) money has been invested in China; considerable interests of American influential persons and families are concentrated there. During exacerbation of confrontation with China, their interests may be affected. And Russia is just a familiar and convenient enemy. This image is easy to sell)))

USAFpilot Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 7:38 a.m. PST

And likewise a lot of money from China has been invested in certain Americans.

Personal logo 15mm and 28mm Fanatik Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 8:27 a.m. PST

The amount of real estate owned by the Chinese in the US is staggering. the largest theater chain AMC is majority-owned by you-know-who. That's why China will always be treated as a "Frienemy" at worst.

Legion 426 Feb 2021 9:15 a.m. PST

China does not have to go to war to defeat the USA. They are buying it a piece at a time. E.g. the NBA, the entertainment industry so far and more coming I'm sure …

It has been said, "Russia wants to destroy us, and China wants to own us." …

Cuprum226 Feb 2021 5:08 p.m. PST

I think that all that Russia wants is its own piece of the pie, which will not be much smaller than that of others)))

Personal logo 15mm and 28mm Fanatik Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 7:03 p.m. PST

It has been said, "Russia wants to destroy us, and China wants to own us."

The former CO whom you attributed this saying to is a wise man indeed, like Confucius.

Legion 427 Feb 2021 5:25 p.m. PST

I was invited to a round table discussion at my old alma mater a few years back. I was a grad from the ROTC program and member of the Military Officers Assoc. of America. There were also many Vets from local Veteran Organizations there too. E.g. Vet Services, DAV, VFW, etc. A number of high ranking Retired Vets from DC lead the discussion. And IIRC a Ret USMC COL from DC said that during our discussion.

I told him that should be on a T-Shirt !!!! We all laughed and agreed !!!! 😎

Personal logo 15mm and 28mm Fanatik Supporting Member of TMP27 Feb 2021 7:13 p.m. PST

should be on a T-Shirt

I'd definitely buy one.

Legion 428 Feb 2021 8:35 a.m. PST

thumbs up

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