Help support TMP


"Fireball Forward! - Questions for Anyone who Plays?" Topic


5 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the WWII Rules Message Board


Areas of Interest

World War Two on the Land

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Featured Ruleset

DivTac


Rating: gold star 


Featured Showcase Article

15mm Peter Pig Soviet HMG Teams

You've seen them painted, now see them based...


Featured Profile Article

Editor Julia's 2015 Christmas Project

Editor Julia would like your support for a special project.


1,281 hits since 4 Feb 2021
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

gambler165004 Feb 2021 8:06 p.m. PST

Hi all,

I've jumped into purchasing a few miniatures rule sets that seemed interesting, and trying them out using Tabletop Simulator before investing in huge amounts of actual miniatures. One that seemed intriguing to me was Fireball Forward! and so I tried to play that earlier today with the first scenario, "Easy Company".

As always seems to be the case, it's the daggum spotting rules that tripped me up again. The Spot Action is straightforward enough. But Opportunity Spotting (Page 13, Rule 7.4) breaks my brain. It didn't help that I spent far too long on the Woods/Zone example when there are no terrain zones in the first scenario.

The second paragraph seems straightforward enough. Move in non-concealing terrain in the LOS of an enemy, and they'll spot you and can opportunity fire.

But paragraph 3 seems to make no sense. "If one element is in terrain that offers concealment and the other element is in open terrain or in terrain that is not adjacent to the enemy element then: There is no opportunity spotting."

I'm going to ignore the part starting with "or in terrain that is not adjacent" as that appears to refer to Zones which aren't present in the first scenario. But the first part seems to contradict the second paragraph. It sounds as though, for instance, if a unit crossed the hedgerows into the open (actually onto a Trench – that's a later question), that they won't be opportunity spotted by Germans in the V shaped hedgerows that are pressed right up to them. Is this correct? If not, what does this rule actually mean?

Paragraph 4 I think I understand: "If one element is in the open and an enemy element moves into a terrain piece/zone within 3 inches then there is no opportunity spotting…" The first thing is, I assume that this is referring to a case where the element in the open never has LOS to the enemy element. You can't opportunity spot such a unit, but on the activation of that element, it could then automatically spot the enemy element in the terrain piece by using the spot action (assuming that terrain piece is the chosen one).

The way I'm playing is that German elements up against the inside of the V shaped hedgerows will see any American units that go over the hedgerows into the trench, in the German's LOS, thus spotting them.

I'll be honest, I think the first scenario is poorly chosen as the interaction between the spotting rules, the hedgerows and the trenches are somewhat challenging for a new player. However, I really like the firing rules and the simplicity of the results.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP05 Feb 2021 9:02 a.m. PST

But paragraph 3 seems to make no sense. "If one element is in terrain that offers concealment and the other element is in open terrain or in terrain that is not adjacent to the enemy element then: There is no opportunity spotting."

Without knowing the rules, this sounds as if it is meant to cover multi-base units. So, for example, 2nd platoon, comprised of 3 bases advances. 2 bases are in cover but one is not. In this case the rule applies and there is no opportunity spotting.

gambler165005 Feb 2021 9:28 a.m. PST

So, more clarification:

Units are made up of elements, but elements (not whole units) are revealed. So it wouldn't apply to the moving elements (which move one at a time). I suppose it could mean the 'non active side' elements, but there's no requirement to keep the elements of your units close together so that makes little sense as well.

Martin Rapier05 Feb 2021 10:52 a.m. PST

I wouldn't overthink it. FF is essentially a blend of Crossfire and Squad Leader.

But yes, I agree, the interaction of the hedgerows and trenches don't make it the most straightforward intro! WE just ignored all complicated spotting stuff – if it was in LOS you could shoot at it. If it wasn't, you couldn't. The scenario appeared to work fine under those circumstances.

Sean Barnett05 Feb 2021 3:14 p.m. PST

Opportunity spotting of a moving element would occur if it moved in the open in line of sight of an enemy element in terrain providing concealment. The moving element would be revealed. But the element in concealment would not be spotted unless the element moving in the open stopped within 3" of the concealing terrain and declared that it was spotting it per Rule 5.2. If the element in concealment was moving and the enemy element was in the open, the element in concealment also would not be spotted as or after it moved. That's the meaning of paragraphs 3 and 4 of Rule 7.4.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.