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"Pentagon Begins The Process To Purge Confederate Names" Topic


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Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP12 Jan 2021 12:37 p.m. PST

…From Military Bases.

"The Pentagon is moving forward to satisfy a congressional directive in the 2021 defense policy bill that will result in the renaming of at least 10 Army bases and possibly two Navy ships that honor the Confederacy.

On Friday, Acting Defense Secretary Christopher C. Miller appointed four members of what will eventually be an eight-member congressionally mandated panel: the lengthily named Commission on the Naming of Items of the Department of Defense that Commemorate the Confederate States of America or Any Person Who Served Voluntarily with the Confederate States of America…"
Main page
link

Amicalement
Armand

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian12 Jan 2021 1:19 p.m. PST
mjkerner12 Jan 2021 2:53 p.m. PST

Yup, the erasing continues. In a couple of generations you won't even know there was a Civil War. Once done with the CSA, they'll start on the Union. Oh, that's right, some are already going after Lincoln, because…racist.

USAFpilot Supporting Member of TMP12 Jan 2021 3:46 p.m. PST

Yep, looks like George Orwell was 37 years too early with his prognostications.

Wackmole9 Supporting Member of TMP12 Jan 2021 3:51 p.m. PST

Name a US Army General who will meet the woke standards of naming a base after Him/Her? I sayBase #1 and Base #2, and so on.

torokchar Supporting Member of TMP12 Jan 2021 3:57 p.m. PST

Rename Fort Hood to Fort Audie Murphy would be a good start.

Born: June 20, 1925, Kingston, TX

Wackmole9 Supporting Member of TMP12 Jan 2021 4:02 p.m. PST

Sorry but He was a heavy Drinker, So Disqualified.

dBerczerk12 Jan 2021 4:39 p.m. PST

Who'll get the contract to produce all the new signage required by the name changes? Somebody's gonna make a bundle on this deal. I wonder to whom he's related?

John the OFM12 Jan 2021 7:18 p.m. PST

I'm ok with that. Not only are our most important bases named after Rebels, but incompetent ones at that.
Hood?
Bragg?
What are they most famous for, if not disasters and incompetence?

Personal logo Grelber Supporting Member of TMP12 Jan 2021 9:25 p.m. PST

I went over the list of 10 bases, and I can't honestly defend keeping half of the names. Henry Benning, for example only saw military service during the Civil War, with the Confederacy, and spent a lot of time protesting the Confederacy's conscription act, without which the South wouldn't have been able to maintain viable sized armies. Not sure why either North or South would want to name a base after him. Lee, Pickett, Bragg, and Beauregard were highly respected American Army officers in the war with Mexico, so they at least have that going for them.

Grelber

Zephyr112 Jan 2021 9:37 p.m. PST

" Base #1 and Base #2, and so on"

Sorry, but at some point numbers will also be deemed to be not woke enough…

Tgerritsen Supporting Member of TMP12 Jan 2021 9:52 p.m. PST

Why name them after military men at all? Too gender specific and militaristic. Why not raise money for our national budget by leasing naming rights like we do for sports stadiums? Fort Aflac and Fort Coca Cola would be fine names in our new millennium and net a tidy sum.

/sarc

A sea that raged no more13 Jan 2021 4:26 a.m. PST

From Military.com

Seems like you've got a job for life there, Bill. Always quoting articles…

mildbill13 Jan 2021 5:24 a.m. PST

Year zero, if the past doesnt exist, then we can rewrite the future. Break the masses away from their culture and we can get them to believe anything and do whatever we want.

Marcus Brutus13 Jan 2021 7:06 a.m. PST

The idea that Confederate generals are called today traitors is disturbing. In essence, that was what the War was about. What kind of nation the United States would be? As Shelby Foote wrote, before the war it was the "the United States are," after the war "the United States is." People, especially those from South, had a bi-national identity and can one really fault Lee or Hood for going with their State instead of their National government?

Cormac Mac Art13 Jan 2021 7:32 a.m. PST

Seems like a no brainer to change the names of bases that are named after generals from a defeated army that engaged in insurrection against the United States of America.

dBerczerk13 Jan 2021 8:29 a.m. PST

"Millions for defense, but not one cent for political correctness." -- Robert Goodloe Harper

Bill N13 Jan 2021 9:46 a.m. PST

Thomas Jefferson said that no generation has the right to bind succeeding generations. If the current generation believes other names for military bases are more appropriate, that is its prerogative. Whether their motives for doing so are reasonable, whether the new names chosen are appropriate, whether we have better use for the money and other resources used to rename the bases, these are separate questions.

As for erasing history, we Americans were doing that long before the current mania for polital correctness.

Stryderg13 Jan 2021 11:51 a.m. PST

engaged in insurrection against the United States of America.

But they didn't, they attempted to commit separation from the states they disagreed with. Think dropping a box of marbles versus dropping a fishbowl, one just separates unique objects the other destroys a single object. And before anyone points out how wrong I am, don't be so judgmental!

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP13 Jan 2021 12:22 p.m. PST

TGerritsen + 1 (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

USAFpilot Supporting Member of TMP13 Jan 2021 7:25 p.m. PST

Something you all are forgetting. Ft Bragg has a long and honorable history all its own that far exceeds its namesake. Yes, the name is that of a Confederate General, but the name is so much more after all these decades since the Civil War and has a history of other wars. When I heard the name "Ft Bragg" when I was on active duty I didn't think of the Civil War; instead I thought of US Army Special Forces and where I might be flying them. Same with all the names of the bases; people forget the original history of a particular name; as the base developes it's own history as time goes by.

Personal logo COL Scott ret Supporting Member of TMP13 Jan 2021 10:10 p.m. PST

USAF Pilot +1

SeattleGamer Supporting Member of TMP13 Jan 2021 10:50 p.m. PST

Speaking of traitors … names like Washington and Jefferson spring to mind. They were rebels, fighting against the legal government. That their side won the war makes no difference. They were traitors, yet we celebrate them.

So the moral high ground is yielded, and now it comes down to degrees of traitor. Which is that slippery slope we hear about from time to time.

While we are changing names of defeated people, why are we not changing every single native american name? Rivers, mountains, even entire states have names based on a defeated tribe that could not win a war.

Why are we honoring those losers?

Once you go down the path of deciding who from our past is "worthy" and who is not, it is just a matter of time before the panel that makes such choices changes to the point where previously honored people are going to be removed.

John the OFM14 Jan 2021 12:22 a.m. PST

Let's put aside for the moment the political correctness angle, and whether or not they were traitors or not.
We're they competent?
Applying that to Hood and Bragg, the answer is a firm NO.

Bill N14 Jan 2021 11:56 a.m. PST

Andrew Humphreys seems to have been competent enough in his roles with the Army of the Potomac. That didn't save Camp Humphreys from being renamed Fort Belvoir, nor did it prevent them from renaming Fort Humphreys in DC Fort McNair.

Bellerophon199315 Jan 2021 8:17 a.m. PST

People have changed names since time immemorial. The Romans did it, America did it in the 18th century.

To complain on behalf of a bunch of people who tried to shatter the union is nutty.

Trajanus15 Jan 2021 9:29 a.m. PST

Maybe you could argue that Hood and Bragg tried to shorten the war?

Bellerophon199315 Jan 2021 10:21 a.m. PST

Also, how is not honoring these people "erasing" history. We don't have an Adolf Hitler memorial library either, and yet somehow people manage to know what world war 2 is.

People comparing this to Orwell probably haven't read Orwell. A guy who was a socialist by the way, and an anti-colonialist to boot, so probably would have little in common with you.

dBerczerk15 Jan 2021 5:55 p.m. PST

Bellerophon1993,

Perhaps you never served at one of these bases, like Fort Bragg, or deployed from a base like Fort Bragg, or returned to a place like Fort Bragg following a deployment. If not, perhaps that may be why you do not understand some of the opinions expressed here.

Delbruck16 Jan 2021 5:50 a.m. PST

This subject has nothing to do with the the American Civil War 1861-65. It has everything to do with 21st century American politics. Is this the direction TMP is headed? I watched sports and played wargames for excape. I no longer watch sports. By it's very mature "wargaming" is not politically correct. Be very careful!

Delbruck16 Jan 2021 7:26 a.m. PST

My comment should read "by it's very nature wargaming is not politically correct". Autocorrect is "wonderful", but it would be nice to be able to edit for a longer period of time

Cleburne186318 Jan 2021 4:56 a.m. PST

I honestly don't care. It doesn't affect my life today in any way.

Bill N18 Jan 2021 7:37 a.m. PST

dBerczerk. you make an interesting point. The place name can start taking on a different meaning in people's minds from the person the place is named after.

Paintin Lead24 Jan 2021 11:09 a.m. PST

How many of you are aware that "political correct" used to be called "communism"? As I was leaving "the movement" back in about 1973, we were ordered (by the KGB, no less) to call ourselves anything but communists. Hence, "political correctness." I vowed right then and there to NEVER do or call them anything they wanted. Does that make a difference?

Last Hussar Supporting Member of TMP07 Feb 2021 5:27 a.m. PST

"that "political correct" used to be called "communism"?"

No it wasn't.

I expect that the Lefty Woke Liberals will be complaining about an aircraft carrier USS Hirohito.

Last Hussar Supporting Member of TMP07 Feb 2021 5:40 a.m. PST

Given Fort Sherman hasn't been around since 1900, they could use that.

Maybe in Georgia.

Au pas de Charge08 Feb 2021 12:01 p.m. PST

How many of you are aware that "political correct" used to be called "communism"?


It looks like just about anything can get called communism:


link

Maybe if we call a base Fort Kommie, it'll fool the communists. After all, no communist would actually call themselves that.

Trajanus09 Feb 2021 12:10 p.m. PST

Apart from Fort George G. Meade and Fort Custer I'm not sure I know of any Union named bases.

Maybe this is why.

Fort Grant – Closed 1905
Fort McClellan – Closed 1999
Fort Nathaniel Banks – Closed 1965
Fort Sherman (Canal Zone) – Closed 1999
Fort Sherman (Idaho) – Closed 1900
Fort Hancock – Closed 1974
Fort Burnside – Closed 1948
Fort MacArthur – Closed 1948
Fort Thomas – Closed 1964
Fort McDowell (California) – Closed 1962
Fort McDowell (Arizona) – Closed 1867
Fort Sheridan – Closed 1993
Fort Buford – Closed 1895
Fort Rosencrans – Closed 1959

Au pas de Charge09 Feb 2021 3:45 p.m. PST

Interesting. Maybe the Confederate names had more appeal to type of recruits in the army of the past.

I wonder if the Confederacy had won, whether they would've named a Fort after Sherman?

Quaama10 Feb 2021 8:49 p.m. PST

Not a chance of that I would think. Others yes, Sherman, definitely not.

Marcus Brutus11 Feb 2021 7:46 a.m. PST

I don't have a problem changing names of military bases (although I have sympathy for dBerczerk's point that these names develop their own identity over time.) My main problem is the historical ignorance surrounding the ACW and what was at stake in the conflict. It was a lot more than slavery. I just read "The Framers Coup: The Making of the United States Constitution" by Michael Klarman and one realizes that the basic argument fought over in the ACW was baked right into the compromises that gave rise to the 1787 Constitution. There are two fundamentally different understandings of the United States in the current constitution. The War decided which understanding became primary.

Au pas de Charge11 Feb 2021 8:54 a.m. PST

@Marcus Brutus

An interesting book and possible gift for my father.

Personal logo Der Alte Fritz Sponsoring Member of TMP15 Feb 2021 5:35 p.m. PST

I'd bet that until recently, the vast majority of Americans had no idea who these Bragg, Hood, Benning et al fellows were/are.

Are most of the forts named after Union generals located in the north and the ones named after CSA generals located in the south?

FWIW, I live next door to Fort Sheridan. They carved out a small parcel of land for the Army Reserve post and the rest of the land has been turned into a residential development. There used to be a small air strip on the post and you'd occasionally hear small planes taking off or landing. My Mom would always say, " it sounds like the General is coming/going"

Trajanus16 Feb 2021 8:58 a.m. PST

I'd bet that until recently, the vast majority of Americans had no idea who these Bragg, Hood, Benning et al fellows were/are.

If those interview videos you see on You Tube are anything to go by the vast majority of Americans don't know the Civil War, let alone anyone who was in it! 😄

LostPict Supporting Member of TMP28 Apr 2021 5:28 p.m. PST

The US Navy mostly names bases after locations. It mostly works fine, except Norfolk Naval Shipyard is in Portsmouth, Virginia and Portsmouth Naval Shipyard is in Kittery, Maine. Maybe that is a good compromise. Of course, we still have all those ships named for politicians…

Mako2303 May 2021 7:14 a.m. PST

This makes me sick!!! I had relative's that fought on both sides, and erasing history doesn't change crap!!! Hell I was born on Fort Bragg!!! So does that mean they have to change my Birth Certificate???

Bill N03 May 2021 9:29 a.m. PST

A few years back my grad school's name was changed. The guy they named it after didn't help found the school and didn't give money to the school. His connection was limited to teaching a few seminars. The school made the change over the objection of both current students and alumni. It was part of a re-branding of the school to make it more attractive to conservatives.

This stuff happens. I can think of a number of instances over the years. We have been doing it since the AWI. Sure it is stupid, but both sides have done it, and it is a game that people in power regardless of orientation have been playing for some time.

takeda33304 May 2021 4:18 p.m. PST

I suppose my birth on an air force base now becomes a problem by name after over 60 years?? Geesh sure hope the falling leaves from my magnolia tree doesn't offend somebody somewhere.

EJNashIII08 May 2021 11:21 p.m. PST

oh my, interesting to see the political threads are back.

Korvessa10 May 2021 6:31 p.m. PST

What if we take a hint from the music industry:

The fort formerly known as Bragg.

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