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"7e Legere April 1809" Topic


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Action Log

11 Jan 2021 4:50 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Changed title from "7e Legere April 1809" to "7e Legere April 1809"Removed from Pulp Gaming board
  • Changed starttime from
    11 Jan 2021 2:18 p.m. PST
    to
    11 Jan 2021 2:19 p.m. PST

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MarbotsChasseurs11 Jan 2021 2:18 p.m. PST

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to post some of my work on the 7e Legere. I will follow up this post with what I have on their uniforms.

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Below is the list of officers from the 7e Legere that took part in the Battle of Thann. Two battalions (1st & 3rd) were under General de brigade Petit's command, who was attached to the advance guard under General de Division Montbrun. As the list shows below, the 1st and 3rd suffered the most casualties, with the 3rd's staff being the hardest hit, losing Adj. Major. Louis Waroquier (killed) and Chef de Batallion Jean-Pierre Faury shot in the left hip. Six other officers from the 3rd Battalion would be wounded, including two Capits., two Lieuts., and 2 Sous-Lieuts. There was also one officer from the 2nd Battalion, named S.Lieut. François-Joseph Courties, who was shot in the left shoulder.

The wounded officers of the 3rd Battalion were Capit. Yves-Blaise-Julien Bonnescuelle Duplessy (35) shot in the right hand, 3e Bat./ 4e Co. Capit. Jean Baptiste Brocq (43) was wounded by a shot at Thann on 19 April 1809, 3e Bat./ 3e Co Lieut. Charles Dupuy (nd) no information on his wounds, 3e Bat./ 4e Co. Lieut. Jean Bertrand Senat (39) received a strong contusion to the right shoulder, 3e Bat./ 3e Co. S.Lieut. Joseph-Benjamin Collin (25) no information on his wounds, and 3e Bat./ 4e Co. S.Lieut. Ambroise Beaumont (no date of birth) no information on his wounds.

Multiple sources put the total casualties for the regiment over 200 men hors de combat. We do know two officers were killed, and 13 other officers were wounded from A.Martinien's study, including the commanding officer Colonel Charles-Guillaume Lamaire, who received a strong contusion to the left thigh. Unfortunately, I am missing the controle de troupes for the 7e Legere, which would shed some more light on the regiment's losses and the situational report dated 20 April 1809. In his work on the 1809 campaign, the Austrian historian Binder says, "In the Petit Brigade, the 7th Light Regiment 2 Batts., which had branched off to Montbrun, lost 2 Officers and only 40 men, which does not seem quite comprehensible." link One word of caution, even though Binder claims to have seen the 20 April 1809 3rd Corps Situational report, his number of casualties seems very high and does not match even close the number of men I have collected from the controle de troupes for other regiments.

However, I did find a document that shows the number of men killed up to 30 April 1809. As shown below from C506, the 7e Legere had 41 killed or scratched off the roles twenty days after the opening of hostilities, which most likely includes those killed outright, mortally wounded, and or those written off due to long absence in the hospital. Before 30 April, the regiments four battalions fought in countless outpost skirmishes, the Battle of Thann, the Battle of Landshut, the Battle of Eckmuhl, and took part in the assault on Ratisbonne. One of the main issues tracking down the regiment's causality is the regiment being split between two different divisions and fighting on multiple fronts. However, in the 7e Legere Regimental history reports"Our losses did not exceed 200 men; Captain Waroquier was killed." link

Whatever the true losses were for the regiment; the regiment could easily afford them as they were one of the strongest regiments in the 3rd Corps with 63 officers and 2,790 NCOs and soldiers present on 10 April 1809.

C 506 3rd Corps 1809

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Service records from Base Leonore.

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Personal logo SHaT1984 Supporting Member of TMP11 Jan 2021 2:30 p.m. PST

Ohh dear no….

MarbotsChasseurs11 Jan 2021 3:57 p.m. PST

This is what I have for the regiment at the moment. I will look through my documents and see if I can find any further information on the uniforms.

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Rigo's article on the 7e Legere
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Presumed portrait of Colonel Sebastien Luchaire

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Personal logo SHaT1984 Supporting Member of TMP11 Jan 2021 8:45 p.m. PST

Nice stuff Mike!
To be clear, my comment above was about the site-stuff-ups that regularly occur… not Mikes content.
Congrats!
d

Marulaz111 Jan 2021 9:11 p.m. PST

Thanks for all this.

John

von Winterfeldt11 Jan 2021 10:56 p.m. PST

high quality work as usual, congratulations.

Bernard180911 Jan 2021 11:43 p.m. PST

Super!
"Thunder on the Danube" de John H. Gill indique que c'est le premier et deuxième bataillon qui sont détachés avec Montbrun.
Le troisième bataillon est en avant garde avec le général PETIT de la colonne des divisions Gudin et Friant.
ERROR - no url for link

ERROR - no url for link


Ceci étant, je me pose encore la question de la place du général PETIT pendant la bataille de Thann?
Bernard

MarbotsChasseurs12 Jan 2021 4:37 a.m. PST

Dave,

I had to delete this twice due to the TMP bug and mixing titles with Tango.

Bernard,

Thank you for that document! My book is in storage and was doing the first part through memory! I will post later the quotes from Saski as you are correct the 3/7 Legere was with Petit as the advance guard for Gudin and 1/7 & 2/7 served under Montbrun most likely under then command of the senior chef de Battalion LeBailiff and later in April were replaced by the 13e Legere. I did find some interesting facts about the officer corps, which when one remembers that the 7e Legere served at Eylau and suffered horrendous causalities, the replacements make sense. I will post more later today.

MarbotsChasseurs12 Jan 2021 6:38 a.m. PST

Location of the 3/7e Legere from Saski pp.253-254

General Gudin, in the Report of the operations of the 3rd division of the 3rd corps of the German army, is expressed thus on the part taken by this division in the operations of the day of the 19th: link

"The division left on April 19th in the morning to go on Abensberg; it was led by Ober-Isling, Hinkofen, Thalmassing and Saalhaupt. Arrived at this village, four companies of the 12th regiment were detached on Dinzling in order to enlighten the left, and the 3rd battalion of the 7th regiment of light infantry moved, under the orders of General Petit, on the heights in front of this first village in order to search the woods and then walk on Ober-Feking; but this battalion encountered the enemy advancing in battle order to attack the army. Despite the weakness of this battalion, Mr. General Petit supported this attack for several hours and, by this means, gave the various columns time to emerge from the forest. Forced to fall back, it fell back on the 2nd division which was near Saalhaupt. This battalion then moved on to join the division, but it again encountered the enemy near Teugen, with whom the division Saint-Hilaire was heavily pledged. General Petit then moved quickly to the left of the position which the enemy sought to overrun. This movement was a complete success, and, in the charge made by the battalion of the 7th, it made 150 prisoners and an officer of the enemy, who were taken to the headquarters of S. E. Mr. Marshal Duke of Auerstaedt, in Teugen."

Report from Petit-PRESSIGNY , Adjudant- commandant, Chef d ' état- major de la division de cavalerie légère, HISTORICAL RELATIONSHIP TO THE PEISING COMBAT, APRIL 19 1809. Saski pp.262-263. link

"On the 19th, the light cavalry division left Egglofsheim to flank the 3rd Army Corps which was marching on Abensberg; she encountered the enemy at Lukenpoint's height. The general of division made his arrangements on the plateau of Dinzling, sent skirmishers on horseback, the company of voltigeurs of the 7th light infantry regiment was also divided into skirmishers. They attacked the enemy who responded with strong enough sharpshooters' fire and which immediately made butcher of the woods, on the heights of the right of Lukenpoint, quite considerable forces both in infantry and in cavalry engaged on both sides. Two infantry companies were detached to the right of the plateau and pushed back a regiment of hunters from Hohenlohe. The enemy sent 6 pieces of cannon to the left, put them in battery at the height of the woods; their fire was very lively, but did not slow down the ardor of our infantry, nor of our cavalry. Different cavalry charges were made on the dragoons of Klenau and on the hussars of Stipsicz. With the enemy's forces increasing in both cavalry and infantry and amounting to approximately 18,000 men, the general of division made charge with the bayonet the 7th regiment of light infantry, which took about 300 prisoners. The 5th and 7th hussars and the 11th mounted chasseurs alternately charged the dragoons, the hussars and the light horses. . . , they charged on an infantry regiment and did it great harm. This fight lasted from 11 in the morning until 7 in the evening. The forces of the enemy being gathered on the plateau and their left moving to the right of the division, the general of the division, fearing to be turned, ordered the retreat which was made in echelons and in the greatest order by the right of the division and by the woodland path which leads to the village of Peising."

MarbotsChasseurs14 Jan 2021 6:19 a.m. PST

Hello everyone,

Below is information Paul L. Dawson shared with my Facebook group concerning his research from the archives on the 7e Legere.

"Following the battle of Essling, the regiment made good it's damaged clothing. The regiment had to buy cloth and materials at Vienna, at prices much higher than allowed for by the War Ministry in Paris. Purchased materials included:

4m 28 white broadcloth
23m 80 red broadcloth
535m 50 blue broadcloth for pantalons
164m 22 beige broadcloth costing 10fr 40 a meter
974m 01 beige broadcloth costing 12fr 45 a meter
462m 51 blue broadcloth costing 16fr 39 a meter
154m 49 beige broadcloth costing 11fr 35 a meter
160m 25 beige broadcloth costing 12fr 60 a meter
95m blue broadcloth costing 15fr 21
The beige broadcloth was used to make 1098 new capotes costing 2fr 50 each to make, and were made by civilian tailors in Vienna!

Remarkably the regiment had broadcloth pantalons and not tricot. Other materials purchased included 511m 70 of linen for linings, 63m 07 blue milled serge to line the tails of habits, 34m 51 red milled serge to line the habits of the regimental artillery, for which 68 habits and vestes were made. For the carabiniers of 3rd battalion, it was estimated to cost 1024fr to provide them with bearskins, out of economy some 461francs 40 was spent buying them 56 shakos, with lace costing 11fr 50 to accord with the other companies of the regiment, 94 pairs of white shako cords costing 3fr 70 a pair for the 2nd and 3rd battalion, and 8 dozen cockades for shakos.

The bandmaster was re-clothed as well: 2m 40 of superfine bleu de ciel broadcloth was purchased as well as silver lace to adorn the habit. We assume the band wore bleu de ciel- at a pinch we suppose the habits were lined in imperial blue. We also suppose this uniform was worn pre 1809. We can only assume the carabiniers had red epaulettes, and in the 3rd battalion, one assumes red schako cords. The white schako cords were clearly for chasseurs. Nothing is listed for voltigeurs."

Also, he confirmed this is the correct portrait of Colonel Sebastien Luchaire who took over the regiment in the latter half of 1809.

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MarbotsChasseurs15 Jan 2021 2:58 p.m. PST

Hello everyone,

I would also like to post some information on the officers who joined the regiment after the horrific Battle of Eylau. On the two-day Battle of Eylau on 6 and 7 February 1807, the regiment would take part in Marshal Augereau's VII Corps' disastrous attack on the second day of battle. The 7e Legere would lose four officers killed, four mortally wounded, and 29 wounded. After internal promotions, to make up for losses, the regiment was sent five newly promoted Sous-Lieutenants from the Velites de la Chasseur a pied nine days after the battle on 16 February 1807 and three officers on 13 July 1807. Most regiments I have researched have a few officers from the Velites des la Garde (Grenadiers or Chasseurs a pied). However, the 7e Legere is the largest yet. Of the 18 Sous-Lieuts present with the regiment on 19 April 1809, 10 were former Velites des la Chasseurs a pied de la Garde. In contrast, Joseph Marcel (20) was the only recent graduate of the École Spéciale Impériale Militaire de Saint-Cyr. The other seven Sous-Lieuts. were long-serving soldiers of the 7e Legere who were promoted from the ranks and must have felt some jealousy or frustration with the Garde newcomers. There were also two Lieuts. from the Velites des la Chasseurs a pied de l Garde, Claude-Phillippe Cotte (34), and Jean-Paul-Marie de Sede (31). Lieut. Cotte was a holder of the Legion d'honneur and had a long career before joining the Garde and eventually being promoted Sergent in an 9 in the Velites des la Chasseurs a pied de la Garde in 2nd Company, 3rd Battalion of the 2e Regiment. This is still a work in progress as a few are still missing.

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von Winterfeldt15 Jan 2021 11:24 p.m. PST

Thanks again, you raise some interesting points.
It is disappointing to see that Rigo couldn't get the turn backs right – and shows again piping around the bottom of the coat.
The blue lining in serge is not only restricted to the coat tails, but lines most of the coat the sleeves and back part apart.
I will send you photos of an original coat showing all those details.

What was the original word in French for

broad cloth? drap??

Tricot at the time just means a not so high quality production of cloth.

The 4 m 80 – what is 80 – 80 cm? That all is very low amount, maybe used for piping.

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