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"28mm miniatures for Crusaders at Varna?" Topic

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Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP03 Jan 2021 6:10 a.m. PST

So I was doing some research on this battle and found very little actual information on the appearance of the Papal Crusaders army would have been like.

Actuallysome of the best info came from Old Glorys very ample 25mm range for this period.

Since there appears to be no dedicated 28mm miniature range for several of the Crusader Factions present I've decided to use the Perry Miniatures Hundred Years and possibly the War of the Roses lines to work as generic "Western" and where necessary "Eastern" armies.

My first question regarding those lines is which Perry mounted knights to use, HYW or Wotr for generic Western Knights (covering German, Bohemian, Croatians, Papal Knights, & Bosnians)?

Once that is sorted out then I can fill in any Eastern Factions with Perry conversions or Old Glorys 25's.

Thanks for any input.

Swampster03 Jan 2021 6:55 a.m. PST

The knights should probably be mostly in white armour but with great bascinets and similar, which puts them between the two Perry boxes. I think some of the head choices for the WoTR figures could work.

Condottieri figures like the 1450 ones from Mirliton link are the look you are after, though German armour had its own fashions.
Some of the OG WoTR knights might be suitable but the pictures aren't clear. The OG Vlad the Impaler range will supply quite a lot but the knights are too early, and I think the Agincourt knights are too.

Hungarians seem to have used shields longer than the more western areas, so you would need to source those.

tigrifsgt03 Jan 2021 11:26 a.m. PST

Kenshin, take a look at the Fireforge plastic knights. You might find some figures in that range you can use. TIG

Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP03 Jan 2021 6:55 p.m. PST

Thanks both!

Puster Sponsoring Member of TMP04 Jan 2021 1:36 a.m. PST

I would use the HYW cavalry for Varna and the French infantry & knights – though Hungary had some pretty distinctive fashion and cavalry units that are definitely not represented in plastic yet.

Swampster04 Jan 2021 2:11 a.m. PST

I can only see 13th century stuff from Fireforge.

Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2021 8:36 a.m. PST

Puster, a good call. For Hungarian Hussars I would probably have 2 use OG's 25mm range.

I believe they make in their Vlad range as well as their 15th century "Eastern Renaissance" range.

athun2504 Jan 2021 10:45 a.m. PST

Testudo Miniatures does Teutonics and Poles for Tannenberg, and are very nice figures, too.

Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2021 10:56 a.m. PST

Thank you Athun25, that's an interesting line. I wish they had a few more Polish poses.

Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP06 Jan 2021 9:17 a.m. PST

Two interesting pictures here. One shows the armor being closer to the Perry Miniatures Wars of the Roses set:

And the other looks closer to the Hundred Years War boxed set. Obviously these are not definitive proof either way.

One thing seems clear. Both Knights and Footmen were likely still using shields at Varna whereas their Western counterparts had given them up decades earlier.

For mounted knights, I'm now leaning towards the later Perry set with Eastern shields included.

OG 25s has several good codes for Hungarian, Croat, & Bosnian light Cav.

They also have numerous period appropriate codes for Foot Archers, Crossbowmen, Handgunners, Halberdiers & Spearmen.

Honestly the hardest thing about doing this project at this point would be finding good 15th Century Ottomans (as I noted in another discussion here).

Swampster08 Jan 2021 9:54 a.m. PST

The first picture is Hungarians but more from the generation after Varna – the title does date them up to 1500. Knights don't seem to get represented with sallets until a bit later than Varna.

The Serbian knight could be from a generation earlier than Varna and may even be intended to be for Kosovo Pole in 1389

Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP08 Jan 2021 10:12 a.m. PST

Thnx Swampster!

Swampster08 Jan 2021 3:06 p.m. PST

I will modify what I said a bit sallets are in some pictures of knights pre 1450, but they have a differently shaped skull and tail than the sort you see in most of that first image. A couple of the Perry plastic ones might work though I would still be inclined to go with something like a great bascinet or armet.

Griefbringer12 Jan 2021 5:26 a.m. PST

My first question regarding those lines is which Perry mounted knights to use, HYW or Wotr for generic Western Knights (covering German, Bohemian, Croatians, Papal Knights, & Bosnians)?

How about using a selection of both?

WotR knights (with carefully selected helmets) could stand for the more the crusaders with most modern equipment.

HYW knights (with carefully selected bodies) could stand for men-at-arms with slightly outdated but still serviceable equipment.

It is not really an ideal compromise (compared to somebody doing a dedicated 1440's cavalry range), but at least it would provide some flavour and variety on the tabletop. A particular issue might be that the HYW figures are somewhat larger than the WotR figures (though the horses are identical), so mixing the figures in the same units might potentially look a bit odd.

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