"Help with locating or compiling a "master list" of WWII AFVs" Topic

I would like to compile a list of every armoured fighting vehicle (for every nation) that saw combat in WWII and wondered whether the venerable TMP community might be able to help me.

First question, is anyone aware of any web sites or books that might have already done this? tanks-encyclopedia.com is a pretty good resource, but there are some gaps.

My second question, or objective, is to then find authoritative sources for each vehicle which accurately states the weapon(s), armour thickness, speed, vehicle weight, year of manufacture and number produced.

Any suggestions or sign-posting will be gratefully received.

cheers
Darryl

List of armoured fighting vehicles of World War II on wikipedia is a start

There is a website with an amazing list of armor and details, if known. I have since lost the URL, but it is something like WW2Vehicles or WW2 Armor. The owner of the site is also an ASL player which is what started his fascination with collecting information on the vehicles.

World War 2 is not my area of expertise – but does this site help??

link

The WINNAH!

Thanks for the links and suggestions so far, guys.

No idea how this thread got to be added to the 18th Century board – it wasn't me! Apologies to those who have no interest in WWII.

Great site but a LOT of work to turn that into a table…and don't forget you need slope of armour too….probably….

Oddly, I'm doing something close to this at the moment. FWIW there is actually a couple of free sets of rules out there that already have pretty much complete lists of vehicle names – even if the rest is just game specific stats. One in particular is called Battlegame.

I'd start with Wikipedia and prepare to go down the rabbit hole, you'll also need to get familiar with searching internet archiving sites since Wikipedia has a lot of dead links. Also bear in mind that a number of countries like to change the formal designations of their vehicles for ***** and giggles, which can be a real pain. If your going down to the level of detail of production variants that's a whole new realm of madness.

As for the detail prepare to end up with an average of three answers for virtually everything. Some sites are definitely more accurate than others. Mine is strictly an internet-only project. If you've got a budget I'd recommend buying some of the serious reference books out there! I sure people here can advise.

My list currently sits at 800-odd entries, I know that's incomplete, but it does include a number post-WWII vehicles.

And if you happen to find out anything on this subject I'd be grateful if you posted your findings….
TMP link
And since that thread, having looked at the field manuals for the 37mm M5 and M6 there does appear to be a significant difference in performance!

you have also to define what qualifies. Does a single prototype that maight have been used one qualify count?

And then there's field modifications!

@ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa -- can you provide more info about "Battlegame"?

Thanks

AFV?

Is a 40mm on the back of a GMC truck, I admit totally unique to the 2eme DB (Free French Div of Leclerc 1944) an AFV, cos it ain't armoured? Packs a punch though.

How thick (we heard sloped above) does the armour have to be? There were some very dodgy armoured cars on either side in WWII, paper thin.

we recently saw a marvellous NZ effort at an AFV based on a tractor. the risk to the Japanese would have been incapacitation by helpless laughter

@Schogun,
Unfortunately not much. I'm scratching my head, its called BATTLEGAME and was written by a guy called Dan Fraser circa 2005. Can't find hide nor hair of it via Google.

Is a 40mm on the back of a GMC truck, I admit totally unique to the 2eme DB (Free French Div of Leclerc 1944) an AFV, cos it ain't armoured? Packs a punch though.

I believe it would be considered a SPAT …

Encyclopaedia Of German Tanks Of World War Two covers most German Armoured vehicles from Tanks down to Semi-tracked vehicles and Armoured Cars:
link

@ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa

Dan Fraser's name provided the key to…well…something.

His conversion of Panzerblitz to minis:
link

His comprehensive book on the TO&Es (Tables of Organization and Equipment) or ORBATs (Orders of Battle) of many nations in World War Two at platoon scale.
link

I find nothing related to "Battlegame" though.

I see mention that Dan edited a version of Charles Grant's "Battle – Practical Wargaming" so maybe that's what you're thinking of. Said Dan, "My first set of miniature rules was Battle by Charles Grant. I spent about 20 years playing and modifying it. The end product of that is all held in the Yahoo Group… which is now defunct.

The rules set is a re-imagining/expansion of Grant's Battle rules – so the Yahoo group would have probably been it. The photos on the TO&E site look very familiar.

Short list of some of the live site's I've been dipping into (don't take their inclusion as an indication of their veracity – cross check everything)
quartermastersection.com
panzerworld.com
lonesentry.com
afvdb.50megs.com
panther1944.de/index.php/en

I always thought there wasn't any point in listing a WWII tank unless someone made a model of it. Without the model you aren't likely to play with it.
That said I did include the data for the Soviet SU-100Y assault gun. I have yet to see any game with it used.

Good point though with the advent of 3D printing pretty much anything is obtainable. Over the last year or so I've noticed sellers cropping up all over eBay selling all kinds of printed oddball tanks. Not sure what's driving it, but some are clearly World of Tanks inspired / driven – the game's awash with paper panzers and frankly some which are 'scrawled on a napkin in a restaurant panzers'.

This website has a pre-1950 excel spreadsheet available as a free download. Listings are fairly extensive with over 30 different German self propelled anti-tank guns included.

Again, thank you everyone for adding comments, questions etc.

This site seems to be just what I am looking for: quartermastersection.com I had not come across it before, so many thanks to ROUWet… for the link.

I was hoping to build a list of every (semi-)armoured vehicle that saw action in WWII, so a 40mm gun on the back of a GMC certainly counts. My interpretation of what constitutes an "AFV" for this project is probably quite loose!

I'm not sure about incorporating armour slope though…maybe a detail too far? Several of the sites that I have looked at do not include this anyway, so maybe something to add in at a later date. I feel like the original plan is already ambitious. ;-)

Ambitious but invaluable, whatever you come up with.

Even a just list of M4 Sherman subtypes would be a challenge. Different factory makers, engines and fuel types, three different suspensions, wet or dry ammo storage, gun calibres (even howitzers, let alone Calliopes), turrets, small or large hatch variants….etc etc.

That quartermaster link was new to me and invaluable. Tango must be slipping to have missed that.

That Bofors on a GMC truck is my scratch build project now as Santa did bring me the two kits in 1/72 plus much brasswork. Stress it was AA not A/T and totally unique to that one French unit…famously so.

The very best of luck and I am sure many here would be happy to try to help

Cheers Deadhead.

I'll get an initial list together and then share it on here for others to critique and provide feedback on.

Maybe with a few days spare over Xmas, you'll have a chance to build your scratch-build Bofors mounted on a truck? If so, post some pictures up here. I'd love to see it.

Santa brought me an M4A3 75 and an M4 105 HVSS in 1/72, and M8 A/C and M10 TD in 1/35, a Heller GMC truck and Airfix 40mm (plus all the Brass work needed to upgrade and countless transfers) in 1/72 as here;

I have, half done, a jeep called Mort Aux Cons. The list goes on.

Then there is the Prussian cavalry for the massive Waterloo project….it never stops.

I suspect your project could prove far more useful

Neat pic !

Just a warning on the Quartermaster site. It doesn't have references that I can find. I assume some of the cross-country speeds quoted are educated estimates since quite often I can't find any other quoted number. And I've come across the odd spurious armour thickness (sorry didn't take notes). But at least they don't conflate the German identifier's for Soviet tanks with the actual Soviet one's like some sites!

I pulled these top level-ish links to archived internet pages which might be a handy way in:
link
link

Thanks ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa.

I've been working my way through a list of vehicles and variants over the last few days and have found the Quartermaster site to be useful for creating a list, but less reliable for individual stats due to a lack of quoted sources and inconsistencies with other sites.

My main list is up to ~300 vehicles/variants, with detailed stats for most of those, but I haven't touched the US or British yet. Once I have done those, I will post up a list for others to critique/assist with.

I'll check out those two new links you have shared. Another site that I have useful for cross-checking stats is the War Thunder Wiki. It seems to be incredibly detailed, so I am assuming that it uses a lot of reference material. Any opinions?

War Thunder seems to have some game modes that are closer to simulation and the community appear quite active. I've ended up dipping into a couple threads on their forums now and again. They seem pretty well informed. Haven't dipped into the wiki much.

I've generally been concentrating only on those vehicles I can get enough information to incorporate into a game rather than an exhaustive list.

Anything here would be a great help, but what would be incredible (literally so, as beyond all belief) would be a list of what is currently available as a model in various scales.

Reviews would be even better. There are such, but many relate to kits long of historic interest only. So many on-line stores have vast lists of models labelled "out of stock"….sometimes more than what they do actually carry. I can never understand the carelessness this represents.

Your work will be invaluable. I still wonder when does a requisitioned limo, with some steel plate bolted on, become an AFV. The Irish Free State had such for example. My Dad was in their version of the Home Guard and he was to shoot any parachute landing infantry from either side, who were so daft as to drop around Waterford. Snag was that from 1940-2 he did not actually have his own rifle.

Sure this won't be a new site to many, but seems useful, if a bit messy (and I also suspect it reads better in the French).
wardrawings.be

The quartermastersection.com doesn't have the Beaverette armoured car, so excellent as it is, it may not be comprehensive.

@4thCuirassier I'm finding out that none of the sites I have looked at are comprehensive, and even books which I would (mistakenly?) assume would be better researched, would not disagree with each other.

I am ploughing on with compiling a list regardless. It will need some reviewing though.

@deadhead – I had thought about creating a list, which incorporated links to manufacturers, but the question is at which scale? My chosen size/scale is 1/56 28mm, but I know that there are some great ranges in 20mm and 15mm, not to mention 10mm, 6mm etc but I have no knowledge of where to find anything other than 28mm. Even putting together a list of the vehicles that were around in the second world war is more difficult than I thought. I will finish it though!

The great advantage of sticking to "the real historical thing" is that it is , by definition, set in stone. If you have a photo of a Nepalese Infantry tank then you can document it, as it surely existed. (Oh, but I think you are excluding neutral countries and AFVs that did not see action).

Trying to record what is currently available in ANY scale is a minefield. Plastic injection, resin kits, diecast models (which can be remarkable), 3D printing, plus the scales you list. But above all, how many companies seem to have packed up or at least withdrawn various products. Try to find a 1/72 Revell White Scout Car or an M20 A/C or example. Almost anything from Dragon. "Not in stock"

The one Benefit might be that you could attract funding for your project from an enterprising manufacturer or two?