"Middle Guard Drummers" Topic

I don't think I've ever seen an illustration of these, and if left to my own devices I'd make them just like Old Guard but with shakos – basically just the same as the troops with gold braid at turnbacks, lapels, collar. I can't see them going to the Bardin green uniforms.

Anyone know better?

Pray tell, what regiment is that? They have titles, one and all…

I may be able to help if you precise a couple of regiments (and periods) of interest

Middle Guard Infantry:
Fusilier Grenadiers
Fusilier Chasseurs

Fusilier Grenadiers

Fusilier Grenadiers & Chasseurs

Boisselier plates:

Private collection:

Pretty much as I expected. Did the Fusilier Chasseur drummer wear that side plume into the 1812 period? Or is it an early version?

Question for the experts, I can't tell from the plates – is the lace gold, or aurore?

Gold, like the OG Grenadiers and Chasseurs.

Definitely gold lace.

Although I haven't seen a picture of the Fusilier Chasseur drummer with a front mounted plume, I would assume they did from sometime in 1810 when the regiment's shako was changed to one with the front mounted cockade & plume.

I agree with PoE.
The initial uniform was a regulation 'anacronism' when it was issued, and stayed that way for some years, presumably until they wore out enough.

Despite all the hype about 'superior' dress and everything else regulated to the spit on their shoes, the 'Guard' were a walking museum of stuff at times.

Just goes to show that the "on the date of decree" issue of uniforms, frankly, wasn't…
Given the 'immediate issue' of that shako and accessories in 1806 to a new Guard formation, why wouldn't the same have existed in the line contemporaneously?

And in 1806, they were just junior Guard regiments.
The appelation given in 1812 (was it), simply around administrative issues (which must have been a nightmare)- senior NCOs and mid-range officers from the 'respective family regiments' retained their higher pay in the junior regiments etc.

However I'd say those lace tabs on the lapels are BS, made up. They would not have had more gold and greater expense than the senior regiments staff/ drummers had. Period.

regards d

As the Rousellot plates have been provided, while researching another little matter I pulled the text.

The english translation is quite attrocious in places; and I learnt a long time ago to alos read the French, as sometimes enitre sentences or paragraphs were truncated out of the translation.

Nevertheless, even Rousellot points out the lack of 'regulation' uniform when the regiment was first decreed 1806; thus placed under the auspices of the Conseil des Chasseurs, they received a cheaper version of the chasseurs dress, with only blue piped red shoulder straps.

He cites the change (for the chasseurs) in shako type and accessories around 1810- probably because no evidence exists of them being changed prior to the 1809 campaign.
Great for gamers…

As to the drummers, single gold lace adorning standard fuslier (legere) uniforms.
d

The original uniform of the Fusilier Chasseurs and Fusilier Grenadiers was certainly not "an anachronism." Both units grew directly from the Grenadier Velites and the Chasseur Velites, and wore the same uniform as the OG, without the bearskins.

The Velites became the Fusiliers in 1806, and their uniform had certainly not gone out of style. They added a shako, changed their names. Except for the piping and cuff flaps, their uniforms were the same as the line.

And thus it remained until the Bardin uniforms were issued in 1813. The Old and Middle Guard kept the old style, but so what? Where's the anachronism?

I would also bet that the Fusilier Chasseurs moved their plumes to the front of the shako when the Legere regiments did the same.

"was certainly not "an anachronism.""

Well mate thats certainly your opinion. Wearing a uniform with attributes going back several years is just that IMHO. Their 'eliteness' is somewhat soured I'd say by the ad-hoc nature of the desperation with which they were reorganised.

Regardless of being called it, they weren't dressed in the style of the Chasseurs in 1806. Perhaps later, once manufacture and reorganisation caught up
They were not dressed in any top of the line 1806 uniform. And legere shakos with lhs short pompom, barely even seen in the 'line' corps…

And i'd bet you are wrong that any regiment 'altered' shakoes willy nilly- ever tried to stitch double thickness crude cut cowhide?
And I've never read anywhere that legere did any such thing. Uniform issued at times of replacement were often new styles, new manufacture, or replacement old-old in better condition.

We saw that the 3eme de lignes voltigeurs do this in 1807- turning their best bicornes over to the quartermaster after removal of the voltigeur attributes for reissue among the regiments fusiliers- so part of a regiment (all the voltigeur companies) were issued shakoes, the fusiliers were not.
d

Yes, I guess it is. But I'm not your "mate."

The Velites wore the parent uniform, except for the hat, no?