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"Favorite ECW Rules?" Topic


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dbf167608 Dec 2020 4:09 p.m. PST

I know this subject comes up from time to time, and the responses seem to be all over the place, but I thought I'd ask again to see if there are any new thoughts. I've ordered a bunch of the new Steel Fist 15mm figures, which are beautiful by the way, and am trying to figure out how best to use them. Obviously, I'm interested in rules that work for 15mm, but please feel free to respond to rules for other size miniatures, as well.

Thanks in advance.

dbf167608 Dec 2020 4:10 p.m. PST

I know this subject comes up from time to time, and the responses seem to be all over the place, but I thought I'd ask again to see if there are any new thoughts. I've ordered a bunch of the new Steel Fist 15mm figures, which are beautiful by the way, and am trying to figure out how best to use them. Obviously, I'm interested in rules that work for 15mm, but please feel free to respond to rules for other size miniatures, as well.

Thanks in advance.

Wackmole908 Dec 2020 4:15 p.m. PST

Push of Pike

Irish Marine08 Dec 2020 4:40 p.m. PST

Pikeman's Lament

Big Red Supporting Member of TMP08 Dec 2020 4:41 p.m. PST

My two favorites are Victory Without Quarter by Clarence Harrison (and the price is right):

link

And The Pikeman's Lament by Daniel Mersey and Michael Leck.

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP08 Dec 2020 4:51 p.m. PST

Field of Glory-R served our group well for many years.I personally prefer George Gush's rules.

martin goddard Sponsoring Member of TMP08 Dec 2020 6:05 p.m. PST

link

Here is a full breakdown of Regiment of Foote from Peter Pig.
£9.00 GBP pdf.
ROF is specifically ECW and played on a 4x3 table.

Maybe have a read of the breakdown and see if it suits?
ROF is a battle set not skirmish though.
Plenty of real battles included.

Good luck with the search


martin

Crow Bait08 Dec 2020 6:12 p.m. PST

I like Irregular Miniatures Renaissance Rules in a Box. Very rules light, but a great sandbox for building the rules you want. Made for 2 or 6MM, but can eaisly be adapted to 15MM.

Yesthatphil08 Dec 2020 6:18 p.m. PST

Renaissance Armati (with '2nd Edition' updates and amendments) …

Phil

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP08 Dec 2020 6:50 p.m. PST

Cavaliers and Roundheads – I have found gives an easy and satisfying mid to larger game and is easily taught to others

Onomarchos Supporting Member of TMP08 Dec 2020 7:18 p.m. PST

I also use Pikeman's Lament

Personal logo David Manley Supporting Member of TMP08 Dec 2020 9:41 p.m. PST

My personal favourite is a BBDBA variant that a friend wrote many years ago

KeepYourPowderDry08 Dec 2020 11:44 p.m. PST

For small scale battles/skirmishes Pikeman's Lament will be a very popular answer. Personally I think these don't translate too well to 15mm.

Larger Scale battles it has to be a choice between For King and Parliament or Twilight of Divine Right. Both give good games, FK&P is not for everyone as it is card driven and grid based.

Any ruleset written for large battles will translate and work with 15mm work you just need to adjust distances to a suitable size (often simply solved by using cm instead of inches).

Older rule sets such as Gush, Forlorn Hope and 1644 are still readily available and give good games. (I've just got a copy of Gush not read or played it yet so can't really comment)

For those familiar with Warlord and Warhammer then Pike and Shotte and WH:ECW might be good gateway drugs…
(WH:ECW is out of print but regularly available on fleabay)

Other older rulesets often appear in these lists but are difficult to obtain (at sensible prices)- TSR's Cavaliers and Roundheads still has much love, being one example.

Me? My favourites are for skirmish Once Upon A Time In The West Country (still available), and for big battles Forlorn Hope (still available too).

Other useful bits to 'steal'/use are the campaign bit from Regiment of Foote (first published version, now out of print), and the siege rules from the generic ECW siege rule supplement from Partizan.

advocate09 Dec 2020 2:42 a.m. PST

Larger battles, For King & Parliament

Son of MOOG09 Dec 2020 4:20 a.m. PST

I will always recommend 1644. Been playing it since I started war gaming way back 20+ years ago. Actually it is the only ECW rules I have ever played but I fell in love with them at first sight and have just as much fun with them now as then.

Vis Bellica09 Dec 2020 4:40 a.m. PST

I like "To The Strongest". The right balance of detail and enjoyment, plays on a grid so no measuring woes, gives a great game (even a large game) in a reasonable amount of time.

Here's a couple of recent AARs that should help show what I mean:

link

link

skipper John09 Dec 2020 5:42 a.m. PST

Pikeman's Lament here.

Thomas O09 Dec 2020 6:31 a.m. PST

Pikeman's Lament

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP09 Dec 2020 6:42 a.m. PST

We really enjoy For King & Parliament, but also Pike & Shotte, just depending…

Charge The Guns09 Dec 2020 7:42 a.m. PST

Pike an Shotte by Warlord Games, and For King and Parliament by Simon Miller, are my current favs.

We are spoilt for choice though as there are many great sets out there. I'm trying to maintain a list, on my blog, of those that I come across.

link

Bede1900209 Dec 2020 9:19 a.m. PST

There aren't any really good ECW rules.

For King & Parliament is the best of the bunch however

Phillius Sponsoring Member of TMP09 Dec 2020 10:24 a.m. PST

FK&P

Stoppage09 Dec 2020 2:00 p.m. PST

@bede

I've been staying off tmp but you've made me cross so I've come back on ;)

there aren't any really good ECW rules

What would you actually like to see in a "really good" ecw rule-set?

takeda33310 Dec 2020 1:16 a.m. PST

For those Lament players there is a big battle variant written by a forum member with mixed pike/shot units in the variant section of Lament section on the Dux Rampant forum. Designed for Williamite battles in Ireland but well worth a look. Easily adapted for other battles.

conflans11 Dec 2020 10:28 p.m. PST

Is Cavaliers and Roundheads still available?

KeepYourPowderDry11 Dec 2020 11:12 p.m. PST

Conflans – no. I know of a couple of copies available on the web, both listed around $3,000. USD Occasion a copy turns up on eBay at more realistic pricing, but don't hold your breath.

Au pas de Charge12 Dec 2020 7:52 a.m. PST

If a purely academic interest in Cavalier and Roundheads is what is sought after, this site claims to incorporate many of the mechanisms of that rules set and offers them for free for personal gaming purposes.

link

I have never had a copy of Cavaliers and Roundheads and thus I leave it to others to verify if either the core or the spirit of those rules are enshrined in this alleged modification.

Trebian Sponsoring Member of TMP12 Dec 2020 8:40 a.m. PST

For low level actions don't over look "File Leader"

General Kirchner30 Jan 2021 9:38 a.m. PST

I have played pike and shotte and pikemans lament, and like them both

Warspite101 Feb 2021 5:04 a.m. PST

I loved the George Gush WRG Renaissance Rules (2nd Edition) and, if fighting ECW today, I would probably still use them.

Barry

Personal logo perfectcaptain Supporting Member of TMP01 Feb 2021 3:30 p.m. PST

I used to play the Gush rules for ECW. I particularly liked how you got a decisive advantage in melee if you paid extra for your cavalry to carry an axe….. still, had a great time playing them.

Gwydion02 Feb 2021 3:38 a.m. PST

Used to favour the Gush rules myself but I can't face all the 20 hits per figure calculation stuff and making enough single bases to accommodate removal these days.
I have recently been using Twilight of Divine Right Rules by Nick Dorrell and available through the Pike and Shot Society website.
Brilliant in my opinion and I think I have found a set that allows me to play games that seem to reflect the battles of the time. At £12.00 GBP for non members and £8.00 GBP for P&S members I recommend at least trying them.
More info on the Wyre Forest site and in various You Tube run throughs and blogs.

Fenman29 Mar 2021 9:43 a.m. PST

I have tried many rules, DBR, Pikemans Lament, splendid Victory, Regiment of Foote V1 and 2 etc etc but my go to rules now for ECW is For King and Parliament.

For me it has the flavour, moves quickly and is easy to understand.

paulferris196419 Aug 2022 10:43 a.m. PST

Larger Scale battles it has to be a choice between For King and Parliament or Twilight of Divine Right

For King and Parliament look to have some interesting ideas and good period flavour (I have them, but have yet to play them). However, I am always puzzled to see that they are recommended for the larger ECW battles. The infantry unit size is only 500 men, and for 15mm the suggested frontage is 120mm with a grid size of 150mm. If I'm reading them correctly, the rules appear to say that a grid box equates to about 100 yards across. On that scale, the recommended "maxi" table of 6' x 4' is only some 1200 yards by 800 yards? I can't think of any of the major battles that took place in such a small area. I don't have, or want' a 20' table and thousands of miniatures to be able to re-fight Marston Moor!

Twilight of Divine Right, on the other hand, handles the largest battles very well. I appreciate that some might view some of the mechanisms (such as collapsing all combat into morale rolls) as heretical, or not fun – perhaps the way I used to feel about rules using gridded movement (which I think I have now got over!).

I'm not knocking FK&P. As I said, I like a lot of what I read in the rules. I will try bathtubbing the scale to see how they work, and I'm sure that they would play fine, unamended, for battles of 3-4,000 a side, but I just don't see how – as written – they allow the average gamer to simulate Edgehill, etc.

Am I missing something?

sidley19 Aug 2022 12:39 p.m. PST

This has been answered in some detail on the To The Strongest forum. The FKP rules have a section there.

paulferris196419 Aug 2022 1:35 p.m. PST

Thanks sidley

can you please point me to the relevant post? I've had a look and can't see anything obvious in the post titles.

Thanks & BR

Paul

sidley20 Aug 2022 2:29 p.m. PST

Try this link There are various topics which might interest you

paulferris196421 Aug 2022 4:57 a.m. PST

Thanks sidley,

I actually started that topic because I couldn't find an answer :-)

Andrew has provided a lot of useful information, and I like the rules, but I still don't think that – as they are written – they are 'big battle' rules for the average gamer

Mollinary22 Aug 2022 7:40 a.m. PST

Hi Paul,

Looking through your e mail, and what we say in the rules, I think you may be taking the oversimplified tables on page 9 rather too literally. They recommend potential unit and grid sizes for a ‘representative game' on a 12 x 8 grid tale. This allows a game with ‘large' 15mm units to take place on a 6ft x 4ft table. But to play the largest historical scenarios, I think few people would use such really large units. I use 10/12mm figures for ECW, but I have extensive 15mm armies for the ASW and SYW and the units are based on 3" frontages, with 16 foot or 6 Horse on that base. I reckon Naseby requires a 24 box table, Edgehill 27, and Marston Moor 32. Still big, but not out of the question. What we can say is that, if you can get the table space, the rules can handle multiple players and substantial numbers of units through to a conclusion in a few hours. We have played Edgehill and Marston Moor through to a finish in three hours, with players largely unfamiliar with the rules. That said, I would be really interested to hear how your bathtubbing exercise turns out, as it potentially opens up whole new horizons for those with limited space and armies.

paulferris196422 Aug 2022 10:15 p.m. PST

Thanks Andrew,

I'll let you know how I get on.

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