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"Lancs or Yorks?" Topic

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Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP15 Oct 2020 6:24 a.m. PST

Hmmm, so, with the renewed interest in the Wars of the Roses, or WotR, which faction should I back, and why, IF I can choose only one?



Who "won" the most battles, and ultimately the war?

Who was on the "right side" of the conflict?

Not trying to pick a fight on the latter question, but as a rebel former-colonist who lives across the pond, and didn't get much in the way of any historical education on the WotR, it might be helpful to get some perspective on the subject.

I really should know a bit more about the conflict, but other than background on some of the battles, and more general info about it, I only know enough to be dangerous and ill-informed.

Discuss, if you so choose, after voting.

BillyNM15 Oct 2020 6:49 a.m. PST

Lancaster and York are the opposing royal factions, beneath them are the opposing noble factions – the two combine only when in their own interest which is why you see factions apparently changing sides. They stay true to their own interests but as circumstances change so do the pros and cons of siding with either royal house.
Try and pick up the paperbacks by Hugh Bicheno for some background although there are many different interpretations of this period.

parrskool Supporting Member of TMP15 Oct 2020 6:49 a.m. PST

York and "The King under the Car Park" . Down with the Tudors and treacherous Stanleys. (1485….. too soon to forgive.)

Wackmole9 Supporting Member of TMP15 Oct 2020 7:04 a.m. PST


Huscarle Supporting Member of TMP15 Oct 2020 7:06 a.m. PST

Hmm, difficult to choose, but definitely not the Tudor usurper. Although if pushed I would probably choose Richard III who at least tried to improve the common man's lot.

mildbill15 Oct 2020 7:51 a.m. PST

I would go York, but just paint both sides. Then you can paint Irish, French , German, and Scots allies/mercs. Of course you will 'need' to paint 6mm or 10mm or 15mm for the big battles and 25mm for the smaller actions.

Cerdic15 Oct 2020 8:02 a.m. PST

The young Edward IV sounds like a good bloke to go drinking with. Although he will shag your wife…

MajorB15 Oct 2020 8:09 a.m. PST

Who "won" the most battles, and ultimately the war?

Neither. Ultimately the Tudor dynasty "won" the wars. The Tudor dynasty was founded by Henry VII ( who was technically Lancastrian) and he married Elizabeth of York, daughter of Edward IV. So in practice the result was a merger of the two rival dynasties.

MajorB15 Oct 2020 8:12 a.m. PST

which faction should I back, and why

To use the term faction to describe the opposing sides in the WOTR is inaccurate. A faction is defined as a small organized dissenting group within a larger one, especially in politics. Clearly this definition does not apply to either the Lancastrian or Yorkist dynasties.

Deucey15 Oct 2020 8:20 a.m. PST

I proposed this same poll, then Paskal did the same.

Personal logo Herkybird Supporting Member of TMP15 Oct 2020 8:51 a.m. PST

I was born in Cheshire, so am technically a Stanley. For most of my life though, I have lived in lovely Northumberland, which, of course is part of the Percy demesne.
Lancastrian all the way, though my favourite commander is Edward IV!!!!

JimDuncanUK15 Oct 2020 9:05 a.m. PST

Neither I'm from North of The border.

Dagwood15 Oct 2020 9:52 a.m. PST

I'm Welsh, so it must be Tudor

Deucey15 Oct 2020 11:39 a.m. PST

If we're basing this on where we're from, I guess I would back the Iroquois.

55th Division15 Oct 2020 1:07 p.m. PST

has to be Lancaster as that is where i live plus i used to work in the Castle as well

von Schwartz15 Oct 2020 4:27 p.m. PST

If we're basing this on where we're from, I guess I would back the Iroquois.

Naw, the Sioux!

mumbasa15 Oct 2020 7:40 p.m. PST

York, because my war gaming buddy is for Lancaster.

Martin Rapier15 Oct 2020 10:24 p.m. PST

Well, I was born in Lancashire which rather decides that.

OTOH, Henry VII laid the foundations of the modern state and Britain's rise to world dominance 200 years later, so not all bad for someone with such a tenuous claim to the throne.

The WOTR was just a lengthy squabble between robber barons over who was top dog, having won, Henry crushed the power of the nobles and avoided the sort of horrendous problems eg Louis XIV had in France, so good for him.

42flanker Supporting Member of TMP15 Oct 2020 10:30 p.m. PST

From Shakespeare, I have a soft spot for Richard, Duke of York (Dickon's father)

It's curious. The (upstart) House of Lancaster was a busted flush on the premature death of Henry V, leaving an infant son Henry VI who unfortunately had more in him of his insane French grandfather than his warrior father, and presided over the loss of Normandy. Nevertheless it took thirty years for the kingdom to unravel and fifteen years of civil war after that before Margaret of Anjou and Edward the PoW went all-in and suffered the catastrophic defeat at Tewkesbury in 1471.

Nonetheless, the (upstart) House of York proved a blip and a quasi-Lancastrian, Henry Tudor, eventually won the prize.

Those Plantagenets…

MajorB16 Oct 2020 8:32 a.m. PST

Well, I was born in Lancashire which rather decides that.

Except that the House of Lancaster has nothing to do with Lancashire. This is a common misconception. The first House of Lancaster was created by Henry III when he made his son Edmund Earl of Lancaster in 1267. The second house of Lancaster was descended from John of Gaunt, who married the heiress of the first house, Blanche of Lancaster.

It's bit like the present Duke of Cambridge having no connection to Cambridge or Cambridgeshire.

Puster Sponsoring Member of TMP18 Oct 2020 12:50 a.m. PST

Play it out yourself:

Usefull as a scenario generator.

von Schwartz18 Oct 2020 6:06 a.m. PST


42flanker Supporting Member of TMP22 Oct 2020 4:55 a.m. PST


von Schwartz22 Oct 2020 3:53 p.m. PST


Militia Pete24 Oct 2020 2:32 a.m. PST

Loved the Kingmaker!

Personal logo brass1 Supporting Member of TMP25 Oct 2020 6:39 p.m. PST

My ancestors didn't have a dog in this fight but as I am mustering both armies for the battle of Piltown (1462 only WotR battle fought in Ireland) I'll be supporting the Yorkists (the Fitzgeralds) and letting my brother command the unfortunate Lancastrians (the Butlers). No particular reason, just childhood memories of a beautiful sailing ship named "The Earl of Desmond" that used to anchor in the harbor at Annapolis, Maryland,USA.


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