"rapid fire reloaded" Topic

I note that Rapid Fire! have rebooted their rules and at a fiver! I've just ordered a copy. Anyone played them yet?

I have a copy on order, along with the new version of the Market-Garden book, from On Military Matters here in the States. Just remember the Rapid Fire Reloaded is just the basic rules. They are offering it free with those ordering the full set of rules. It does sound like it may include clarifications, errata and an update to the basic section so looking forward to it. Guess this is somewhat of a compromise for not issuing Rapid Fire 3rd edition yet. Still hoping for that since many of the questions or issues are on the more advanced rules.

Hmmm….. if I have the original rules, plus the second version…. are these different enough to be worth adding ?

I have the same question as parrskool.

A few years ago I asked the same question before buying the second edition. The answer I got back then was that the 3rd edition was not really going to be that different from the 2nd.

I just received them.
They are a cut down version of Rapid Fire! with a few new mechanics to speed play.

The following list is in no particular order and certainly isn't complete…

1. No more light damage for tanks… just Damaged and Destroyed… a roll of 1-2 is now no effect.

2. No Charts for tank gun vs tank. Instead, tank armor is a number rather than a letter. A simple formula calcs the hit number. Of course, this is the way everyone did it before. Little is changed here.

3. Infantry fire is now almost "tableless"… You get 1xd6 for every two figs firing… rounded down. Machine Guns get from 2-5 dice. You hit depending on range…3+ for short, 4+ for medium, 5+ for long. Soft cover subtracts 1. Hard subtracts 2.

4. Artillery is the same…getting 2-5 d6.

5. No grenades… we didn't use them anyway.

6. Close Assault is simplified.

7. Morale is down to just tests for breaks…

etc…

These I think are being marketed as intro or large game rules. They would work great for participation games at conventions. You don't really need any charts for them.

You can easily bolt-on any of the Rapid Fire! expanded or advanced rules… Ammo Supply, Air Support, anti-tank grenades to your personal taste.

Joe Collins

Ta. Still not sure……

I may use the new infantry fire resolution in our Rapid Fire games. I need to do some math. One of the features that I liked using the tables is how a roll of "1" was usually no effect. I am somewhat concerned that the new system will generate infantry on too regular a probability curve.

I also like the tables… they are somewhat of throwback to earlier times.

My concerns may however be misplaced.

Joe Collins

I have just ordered Rapid Fire Reloaded. The total cost shipped to the U.S. came out at $11.94 USD

I'm looking forward to seeing it soon.

Interesting, may be worthwhile substituting for same sections in full rules. As I read what you said lkmjbc3 then infantry and machine guns can't cause any casualties on targets in hard cover at long range, interesting.

My synopsis was too brief.
They actually can cause casualties.
On a roll of a 6 a further roll is taken… 4,5,6 produces a casualty.

Joe Collins

I found Rapid Fire 2 suddenly having too many rules and photos in the presentation, and a complex move sequence. RF reloaded is a fresh look at the game and fans can take and use which elements they like. I have always used strict hidden deployment and the order system from the RF Russian front supplement.I think they would work well for big 1/300th games.

Just got them, we're going to try them out with our 28mm figs. Needed something light so that we could run a lot of figs down at the club, when the covid settles down.Plus plenty of Rapid Fire scenarios in old Wi mags and on the web I see.

Never cared for the fact that the rules just rated the tank armor A, B, C, etc. I know, it is supposed to represent an entire unit (???), but it had the effect of making flanking rather pointless. Has that changed?

Rule has remained the same. Either front or rear arc with a modifier for the rear arc. These were meant to be fast play rules and they have always worked rather well for me. I do like most of the changes in Reloaded. I imagine this was not only meant as a simple introduction to the rules but also to satisfy those eagerly awaiting the promised 3rd edition. I suspect Reloaded will replace the front end when and if 3rd edition gets published. Still my go to rules and great for convention games.

Interesting that nobody has mentioned what was to me the most revolutionary aspect of the new rules, the multibase casualties.

For a while now RF publications have shown infantry based in twos in their pictorial OOBs. If only one figure was 'killed' then you took two off and replaced it with one, or marked one of the two as 'dead' with a curtain ring etc. Now, you have to kill two figures in order to remove that base from play. All losses to a unit are added up during a turn and if 6 figures are killed then 3 bases are removed. If only 5 figures were killed then only 2 bases are removed. The remaining 'dead' 1 is now ignored, and it is not carried over into the next turn. So if only one casualty is suffered in a turn then it is ignored.

The effect is to make infantry a bit harder to kill off and take a morale test. Something that many people found was frustrating about RF. Infantry could be just too brittle. A step forward I believe.

It also makes crew served guns more survivable. A crew served weapon is removed only if all the crew are hit on the same turn. So an HMG with 3 crew or AT gun with 3 or 4 crew or artillery piece will be more survivable. It does away with the minimum crew necessary to fire a gun or the minimum trained crew necessary when recrewing rules.

It doesnt state but believe the 2 inch "circle of death" still applies.

I'm not sure that the Risk Zone does still apply. What constitutes a target is defined at the top of page 11. There's no mention of the Risk Zone being used.

"Targets must be visible to the firer and may be a vehicle, group of infantry, or any non-vehicle mounted weapon with a crew"

Vehicles and non-vehicle mounted weapons are pretty clear but "group of infantry" is not further defined. For firing they define firing groups "Figure bases within one inch of each other…" and "up to ten figures" so perhaps same rules for group of infantry for target purposes? Also within one inch of each other is rather vague. I prefer the definition from the 2nd edition "To be counted as being part of the same small arms firing group, each figure base (single or multiple)must be within 1" of at least one other figure base belonging to the same group".

It's not a set of rules for the rules lawyers out there. You sometimes have to apply a bit of common sense. To my mind a group of infantry and a firing group are one and the same. It makes life easier that way.

regarding Marc and deephorse comments regarding the 4" circle of death. Looking at reloaded, like Rapid Fire for rookies, they both do not mention the 2" radius. Just wondering how
everyone is determing casualties…ie. who gets hit? Also, how does one determine if the bn. or company Co is hit?
Any input from you Rapid Fire veterans? Thanks in advance
for any answers.

RF/RFR doesn't have infantry company level COs. The lowest level of command present is that of the battalion commander. He is at risk of being a casualty if his base is the target of fire. Such a base would normally consist of 3 figures. In RFR all 3 figures would have to become casualties in the same game turn in order to eliminate that base. If only 1 or 2 casualties are caused then they are ignored and the CO lives to fight another day.

Under RFR the same principle applies to infantry companies. The convention now is to base infantry figures in twos, but it's not necessary to do so. If the company comes under fire then, once again, you add up how many casualties have been caused on that company during that game turn. If an even number of casualties have been caused then remove that number of figures. If 3, 5 or 7 etc. casualties have been caused then you remove 2, 4, or 6 casualties (1, 2, or 3 bases etc.) ignoring the odd remainder. If only 1 casualty is caused then that is ignored.

So all the figures on a base need to be killed in order to remove that base. If your figures are not based in twos then you simply assume that they are for casualty purposes.

It can be a bit complicated. The Order of Battle diagrams in 2nd edition show 3 figures on a base for Brigade and Regiment headquarters but show individual figures for Battalion headquarters (2 to a stand for some of the heavy weapons assigned to the headquarters). This is also true for many of the scenario books. The rule was if the element received casualties you would roll an additional D6 and if a 6 rolled then the Battalion commander was killed.

The new RFR shows the Battalion command group as 3 figures on one base. As deephorse mentions you would need to cause 3 hits from all fire in one turn to kill the CO. It is easy enough to convert existing scenarios by simply keeping the 3 separate figures of the command group within one inch of another base of that group.

I rather like the new rules which makes many elements less brittle and does away with the necessity for rules such as minimum crew requirements and determining CO casualties. To me this is a case of streamlining the rules and further reducing some of the complexity without sacrificing the overall feel of the game.

Gentlemen, thank you for your answers.

I picked up a copy and it's a lovely publication and quite a novel idea.