"Rules suggestions?" Topic

Greetings, all.

I am being drawn back into my interest of Napoleonic gaming and studying the history, so I have an appeal:

What some of your preferred rules sets for 6mm?

I'm looking into this size as, like many of us, space is a major concern.

I thank you in advance!

What size of battle? That's more important than figure scale. Do you want units to be battalions, regiments or brigades?

I have such a game this afternoon. Today's game is the Wesencraft "Corps Level Game" from his Practical Wargaming--modified, inevitably--in 5mm. It's stand removal, each stand is a battalion, and 1'=1 mile, so a corps-level action plays nicely on a 3x3 table, and Waterloo could be done on a ping-pong table. And of course storage of troops and terrain is not a problem.

I would, truthfully, hate to do a tactical Napoleonic game in 6mm. There tends to be a lot of book-keeping. Best system I have for that is Glidden's "Charge! for Dummies" using 1/72 figures and the skirmish and column rules. It's casting-removal, and troops and terrain fit in two footlockers. At 16 figures to a battalion, you again get a decent game on a 3x3 board.

ESR?

There are only a few 6mm rules written by 6mm players. Most of them are sold by Baccus6mm. This is a very important consideration as most rule sets are written by larger scale gamers who generally have limited if any 6mm experience. I have over 45 years experince in 6mm.

I wrote "Ruse de Guerre" for Baccus in their Polemos series. If you look on this forum you will see a couple of games played using the rules. They are designed for the wars in North America that include the French & Indian War, American War of Independence, and the War of 1812 which is a Napoleonic war. So your able to game basically four different wars using the same set of rules.

The rules are easy to learn, fun to play and provide a good representation of horse and musket warfare. They also use standard "Polemos basing" which is simply two bases for your entire collection.

The rules also include a unique sliding scale that lets you grow the size of your battles as the size of your collection grows. So if your just starting you can be gaming in a couple of months. Should you have any questions I can be reached here or on the Baccus forum.

Presently due to covid restrictions and an overwhelming demand for their products Baccus is temporarily closed but should reopen before the end of the month. You can however order rules by sending them an email or you can obtain a PDF from the Wargame Vault.

If you want grand tactical, look at Et Sans Resultat. It has charts for multiple ground scales so you can game on a small table. One stand = one battalion:

link

@Glenn

Did you write the Ruse de Guerre rules for pay?

If so then why aren't you sporting TMP advertiser "flair"?

Hello Stoppage!

No, I'm actually losing valueable time just helping people improve or maximize their hobby time. I enjoy helping people avoid all the terrible pit falls that are imbedded in our hobby. I have no problem sharing the knowledge I have acquired in 45 years experince in figures, rules, scales, basing, painting, gaming and actual warfare. I lost count of the number of people who have thanked me for helping them and have acquired some great friends in return. Thats a big enough reward for me.

Baccus is a regular advertiser on TMP.

Best regards my friend,

Glenn

C'mon Glenn, investing time – not losing it!

I want to know more about the pit-falls – even the terrible ones.

Wow, some very interesting suggestions.

I'll be looking into them, and, knowing me, be making purchases this weekend, after payday.

Ruse de Guerre and ESR sound very appealing.

I'll let you know as I go.

Thanks!

I suggest that you first consider the questions that Dexter Ward has posed. If you want to model tactics at a battalion level, then the sets of rules that you should be looking at are probably going to be different to those that you would want to use to game Wagram at a brigade or division level. If you have limited room and want to do big battles, then Grande Armee is still a good choice. I don't think that, in most cases, there is any special magic in using rules written especially for 6mm figures. You can generally scale down base sizes to take advantage of the smaller scale figures (or retain the original base sizes and put more figures on them). It would really only be a problem if you reduced the base sizes to a point where they got difficult to handle.

Thank you, AussieAndy, I seem to have blipped over Dexter's post the first time through this thread. Sorry about that.

I think battalion/regiment would be the absolute smallest level I'd want to do – I'm looking towards the Peninsula first, and I don't remember seeing any battles the size of Wagram there.

I've added Grande Armee to my investigations list.

If you want to do the Peninsula, I wouldn't recommend Grande Armee for that. To get the flavour of Peninsula battles, I think that you really need to be able to model the tactics at a lower level. I am a fan of Age of Eagles, for a more tactical game. It is a brigade level game, but it is easily scaleable. As it is based on Fire and a Fury, anyone familiar with Fire and Fury should be able to pick it up readily.There are hundreds of sets of rules out there, so figuring out what you want to get out of them is essential if you want to make an educated choice. If you want opponents and the opportunity to try before you buy, then see what others in your neighbourhood are using.

Good luck.

If you want battalions as units, then Lasalle, Shako or General d'Armee are all worth a look (in roughly increasing order of complexity)

Hello Whitestreak!

Looks like the waters are starting to get a little muddy here. So perhaps a little history might help.

6mm started roughly 50 years ago. Many of the early converts like myself simply used what are often called today "old school rules". These are rules that encourage formation changes in an unrealistic way, which in turn produce unrealistic tactics. They generally lack effective command and control systems that basically let every battalion/regiment on the table do its own thing. Some people have also called these games "shotgun games". The units simply scatter from the start of the game. The classic situation is the eternal search by cavalry to find and attack infantry not in square. Historically no cavalry commander was ever given any such orders. Recently I was able to participate in two separate conversations with 28mm players who were complaining that there tables were overcrowded with too many figures. I mentioned to them the basic problem was that their rules encouraged them to abuse columns. Most large scale rules give bonuses to columns in movement and attack. So only an idiot wouldn't use them to their advantage. Historically the Napoleonic battlefield was dominated by units in line not columns. So their entire representation of manoeuvre on the battlefield was unhistorical. It was only a couple of weeks ago that I saw photos of a large scale Napoleonic game that did not show one unit in line. Their idea of a Napoleonic battle was to simply cram as many units as they can onto the table (in column) and then bash it out with each other. Now they greatly enjoyed the game, which is wonderful, but it was nowhere near how an actual Napoleonic battle would have played out.

Over time some 6mm players like myself and my club members started to notice the "old school problems" in our games as well. Since we were playing big historical battles these problems often appeared. We finally discovered "new school rules", which had eliminated most of these problems. Some of the biggest ones being no requirement to play rock/paper/scissors with formations, no requirement to be bean counters and record casualties and a system that actual encourages you to move your troops in brigade formations. Baccus quickly adopted this style of rules and enhanced it by producing a standard basing system called "standard Polemos basing". Today it is the most popular basing in 6mm and some people simply call it "standard 6mm basing". It's an extremely flexible system that even lets you play "old school rules" if you want to. They also introduced a very clever order system that gives complete control of an army to a C&C, called "Tempo". It's actually the lifeline of the entire battle, which forces players to have a flexible battle plan. The side that gets caught with a bad inflexible plan is generally the loser. The side with the batter plan, the winner. This dynamic does a first rate job in producing similar pressures found in historical battles. It also recognizes cohesion as a key ingredient in battlefield performance.

Ruse de Guerre is the latest version of this series of rules that updates some of the mechanics including the unique sliding scale that no longer forces you to choose what size of battle do you want to play. You can play any size of battle you want with one set of rules. From Maida to Borodino, no problem.

So, for me and many others there are tremendous advantages in using rules especially written for 6mm. Of couse the reverse is true as well. Why would you want to use rules written for a larger scale when your going to use 6mm figures? The really interesting thing is they can also be used by other scales and some other base sizes.

Hope this helps you out in some way.

Best regards,

Glenn

Hi

I used to play 'Empire' rules in 6mm with Russian battalions based in 3 pairs to give you 6 figure battalions – to be honest I think messing around with anything other than a manageable base of figures will just lead you to frustration.
There is a lot to be said for a 60mm x 30mm base or even larger.
I would look at 2 other sets of rules that all suggest larger bases of figures and are pretty simple to get into: Blucher & Volley & Bayonet: Road to Glory.

I went ahead and ordered both Ruse de Guerre & Polemos Napoleonics via Wargame vault.

I'll be looking into the other suggestions by the weekend.

Lots of lovely 6mm Peninsula games on the 'Pushing Tin' blog:
link

Hello Whitestreak!

Polemos Napoleonics is another great choice. It actually has two rule sets in one book. One covers large battles and the other smaller actions. They both use the same basing as well although the larger version allows you to use the bigger base 60x60 which gives you a little more room to embelish your diorama look. Since they were ahead of their time there is a bit of a learning curve. Once mastered they are a very rewarding set of rules. My club played the larger set MdE for about 10 years. Now RdG is our club rules for all Horse & Musket periods that we play F&IW, AWI, War of 1812, Napoleonics and ACW.

Overall looks like you got a great selection of rules to choose from. Each set caters to different people looking for different things. I'm sure you'll find one that speaks to you.

Best regards,

Glenn

Most rules don't care about the figure scale – Shako and Lasalle to name two both work fine with both 6mm and 28mm figures. Piquet Field of Battle will also work fine in either scale.

Today we are blessed with a number of rule sets that are actually figure neutral and to some degree basing neutral as well. However, you have to realize exactly which scale the author actually designed the rules for. Some rules designed for larger scales don't even mention 6mm. Others show them as an option, but very often are not 6mm players and have no idea how to best handle them. You also often still find some rules that are very specific on basing. However that basing might not be the same as the next set of rules that might appear. So now you're forced to be very creative with your current basing or jump into the night mare of "REBASING"!

It's a much better idea to match your basing to the scale your using, not the rules. In 6mm the only basing that has clearly stood up to the test of time is standard Polemos basing 60x30 and 30x30. There are a lot of 6mm players who have adopted that basing and have no intention of playing Polemos. You can even buy the bases with the figures already painted! Simply because you can play pretty much any popular rule set as is or with a few minor house rules.

You mention space is a problem. You might want to look at Bob Cordery's Portable Napoleonic rules. This is a great book with three sets of rules to fight different levels of battles so it can be easy to recreate historical battles. The rules are very simple. A 'google' will find lots of blogs demonstrating these rules. This one is good and shows 6mm figures.
link

Note the games are grid based.

Glenn, with 6mm and a good ground scale you can get plenty of space for manoeuvre unlike the game you described above. There is a fashion to base in three deep so even in line a battalion of 24 figures has a frontage of 8 figures and a depth of 3 when the ratio should be 200 files to three ranks.
At 6mm scale I prefer a base to represent a part of a division rather than a battalion.

Hello Mike!

I also found that while using 6mm and a good ground scale you certainly do have a better chance of having the space for manoeuvre, if you also use rules that are designed for 6mm. People who use large scale rules for 6mm transfer all the inherent problems of large scale rules into 6mm. They just don't notice the problems as easily because they generally do have more space to manoeuvre. I see a number of photos of 6mm games where it's apparent to me that they are using large scale rules. The bases are jammed together, just like their larger brothers, so their oblivious to any problems and actually enjoy their games tremendously. So their happy and that's all that really matters. Is it a reasonable reflection of proper Napoleonic tactics, I don't think so.

Although most people who use Polemos rules base their 24 figures in two ranks of 12, you can actually put as many or as few figures as you want on a base. There is no figure ratio in Polemos. In the latest version RdG there is also no time, distance or ground scales. RdG also has a flexible basing system that allows you to tailor your basing to the size of your battle. A base can represent pretty much anything you want it to be, a company, half battalion, battalion, brigade, Division, half Division, etc. It's entirely up to the scenario designer to shape the organization to match the size of the battle he wants to present.

Best regards,

Glenn

Sam Mustafa's "Blucher" are very good, IMO. Each stand is a brigade, if I recall correctly. It's mainly for rather large battles.

We're enjoying Blucher. 1 Base is 3000-5000 men, so 2-4 bases representing a Division. The organisational grouping is actually the Corps, you assume the Corps and Divisional commanders are doing what they do.

You do have to readjust what you are used to – there are no formations, except a base can go 'prepared'. This means that it has no flanks, and gets the upper hand against cavalry.

Measurements are in base widths (BW) and a 24 BW table represents approx 4-5 miles.

The most interesting part is the 'Momentum'

First you move units in the same corps in 1BW cost 1 MO each
Then you can move individual units for the cost of 2 MO.

If you haven't used all your MO, you can make a command move – put the CinC down, and everything within 2BW can move.

But here is the thing. You don't know how much MO you have – Your opponent rolls the dice, and tells you when a move equals or exceeds this. You therefore have to decide what is the most important, as you don't know when you will have to stop moving units.

For example, you've already used 6 momentum. You *really* want to move the Corps of 8 bases, plus you'd like to move a corps one of 3. Which do you move first – the big one that will take you to 14, so probably not letting you move the 3, or do you play the odds, move the 3, and hope your opponent has rolled at least average. (you declare the group you want to move, and can move everything, even if it takes you over the MO).

It also comes with an integrated 'march to battle' generator – manoeuvring on a map to determine which corps fight ad where- much better than just lining them up