"Help with Landwehr cavalry please" Topic

Thinking about my next project to add to the Prussian cavalry in thomaspicton's Waterloo diorama.

Having done some Landwehr (Elbe), dragoons, hussars and 3rd Silesians I thought Landwehr cavalry in a stovepipe shako, as for the heavily engaged 2nd Neumark Landwehr cavalry.

But I am confused as to head gear. The Cents Jours site shows Kurmark Landwehr in such, but not the Neumark. They are in the conventional Prussian style head gear as do some, but not all, sources. I suspect the experts can cite Knotel or some such authority and would be grateful. Google has just confused me!

Stephen Summerfield in "Prussian Landwehr of the Napoleonic Wars" (Ken Trotman 2018)

Has 2 Neumark LKR I Elite Sqn in black fur caps (lance has red tassel)

III and IV sqn (II had been disbanded) in English stovepipe with white lace, white or mixed red and white cords and white metal Landwehr cross. (lance pennant white over black)

Any help?

Only 100% help!

An Elite squadron? Wow, this is getting better

Many thanks indeed. Now I just have to work out how to produce these, head swap or grinding tools

Since the Prussians had already fought at Wavre and Ligny, the idea of having to converge units due to casualties would not be surprising.

An elite Landwehr unit maybe but in my opinion a unit of survivors may be what they were?

No unit that fought at Ligny and Wavre also fought at Waterloo, though, and indeed only a handful of units that fought at Ligny also fought at Waterloo. A couple each from I and II Corps towards the very end.

I'm intrigued at the idea of Landwehr cavary elite companies though. It's almost an oxymoron, like Militia of the Guard, or something…

There is no authority about the Prussian Army uniforms of 1815, it is next to impossible to say what was worn, there the Prussian Army was in a transition period and the army of 1815 is badly documented compared to that one of 1813 / 15.

A good point of course about the poorly documented transition period and that, as a result, I am probably free to do what I like.

The Elite Landwehr squadron does almost sound too good to be true (but very tempting).

The III corps engaged at Wavre had better things to do than march West of course, but I have constantly referred to Adkin as to which units from IV, II and I corps did get to the field before it was all over. Many did not and many more were detached for various reasons. Never occurred to me how few Ligny veterans were engaged at Waterloo, but that makes sense as IV Corps did the bulk of the fighting at Plancenoit.

Thanks again to all. I always know I can count on folks here to help out

Apparently the Elite sqn of the 1 Neumark LKR was referred to as the "Prussian Cossacks" and shown in the Elberfelder Manuscript with Fur Caps, red bag, white cords and a red tassle at the base of the lance point.

Dr Summerfield has the 2 Neumark's Elite Sqn similarly dressed.

"(h) The Uniforms of the Landwehr Cavalry (from: David Nash – The Prussian Army 1808-1815 – Almark Publications 1972)
The dress of the Landweher Cavalry was governed by the regulations of March 17, 1813. They were to wear a dark blue Litewka with facings in the provincial colouring, similar to that in use with the Landwehr Infantry. A shako, without a cover, bearing on its front a Landwehr cross; grey overalls and black waist and shoulder belts completed the uniform. They were armed with a sabre and a lance, the pennant of which was in provincial colour. The saddle was covered with a black lambskin shabraque, which had a coloured cloth edging usually taking the shape of "wolf's teeth".

Although the clothing and equipment of the Landwehr Cavalry was of a much better condition than that of their infantry colleagues, they were, none the less, subjected to the same influences that resulted in the lack of uniformity amongst the foot troops. In reality, their dress and equipment differed considerably from that which was regulated and has been noted above.

Head-dress was worn with or without a cover. In addition to the prescribed dragoon pattern shako, they also wore the Schirmütze, often given an exaggerated height by means of wire stiffeners. The 1st and 2nd Neumark regiments were English equipped and, as such, wore the English stove-pipe shako. Another Neumark regiment wore captured French Hussar shakos and a Rheinish regiment wore an Ulan Czapka. A Czapka was also worn by a Silesian regiment, some sources ascribe this to the 7th, while others indicate that it was the third. Some head-dress had cords and cap Lines, others none; others were fitted with metal chin scales, and some had the black and white Prussian pompon affixed to the front top. Even the Landwehr Cross was not always used, although it can, non the less, be said to have been the most common item attached to the head-dress, being either white or yellow, metal or cloth."

Unfortunately I could not find out about the Kurmark Cavalry.

Napoleonic Association booklet "Prussian Landwehr and Landsturm 1813-1815" by Peter A. Hofschroher has for:

Neumark cavalry:
1st cavalry Regt – British light infantry shako with waxed cloth cover. Light blue "Lithewka" had red piping on the cuffs. Cartridge box had yellow metal lid badge. Sabre had ion scabbard. Lance pennant white over black. Black sheepskin saddlecloth trimmed red.

2nd cavalry regiment wore a waxed cloth cover on their regulation shakos. Remainder of uniform was as the 1st except light blue piped red waist sash and red over black lance pennant.

Kurmark:
1st cavalry regiment British light infantry shako with a black and white pompon. On campaign it was covered waxed cloth. Dark blue 'Lithewka' had cuffs piped red as were the grey trousers. lance pennants were white over black. Grey square cut shabraque had 2 red stripes.

2nd Regiment dressed as for 1st except for the usual regimental distinctions.

The other 4 regiments wore the regulation shako and uniform. The sheepskin saddlecloth was trimmed red. The pennants were as for the 1st except the 5th who had black with a yellow cross.

George Nafziger "The Prussian army 1792-1815 Volume II The Guard & Landwehr" has:

Neumark:
They wore a blue Litewka with red distinctives. their head gear consisted of English stove pipe shakos with white lace around the top edge and white cords. Their lance pennant was white over black. they were equipped with British gray schabraques, rounded in front and square cut in back, with red heart shaped decorations in the corner.

Brandenburg:
The Brandenburg uniform consisted of blue litewka with yellow buttons and red facings. Their gray breeches had a red stripe down the outside seam. they wors shakos without covers or landwehr cross. Apparently it had a Prussian pompon and brass chinscales. their pennant was red over white.

So plenty of contradiction and some similarities……

This is just brilliant.

I cannot thank you all enough for taking such trouble to research this.

I promise the end result is eventually going to a good cause. My wife thinks the latest Prussian cavalry are superb, because they are no sooner finished and photographed, than they are boxed and posted off to thomaspicton. She now wants someone to express an interest in 2eDB Free French Armour, to clear a few shelves in the study.

Let me echo Deadhead's comments: TMP is such a great resource for information of this kind – thank you all very much indeed!

Yea all good information for 1813, but the Prussian Army changed in 1815.

Napoleonic Association booklet "Prussian Landwehr and Landsturm 1813-1815" by Peter A. Hofschroher on page 63 says about the 1815 uniform:

"On 28th March 1815 blue tailless jackets were introduce. They had collars, shoulder-straps and buttons in the provincial colours. There were 6 buttons on the front of the jacket. The cuffs had piping in the collar colour around them and either a metal or cloth coloured button for closing the seam slit. NCO's wore the same uniform and officers a double breasted tunic with 2 rows of buttons but with the same markings as the jacket.

These jackets do not appear to have been widely adopted at the beginning of the campaign, and the cavalry certainly retained their "Lithewkas" for the time being. As a result of an AKO of 29th April the colour of the shoulder straps and cuff pipings were changed to those of the collars. Regimental numbers, compulsory as a result of the KmO of 20th May, were embroidered on the shoulder-straps. They were red on white and yelloow straps, white on others. Officers wore yellow with gold lce.

The following section is based largely on Bourdier's "L'Armee Prussiene de Waterloo" which itself has no sources mentioned , so its reliability cannot be checked."

The remainder is in my earlier post.

Indeed unsourced and not to be relied on without cross checking

and again thanks for further help…… great responses!

That picture above from Prince of Essling is fascinating. On-line I keep seeing a clipping of the very top left corner, showing the first four cavalrymen, but had no idea of the source.

The Prussian reorganisation must have dramatically changed uniformity and equipment for 1815, when compared with 1813 say. Today's reading of the Osprey book "Prussian Army of the Lower Rhine 1815" explained that the Prussian army had to incorporate units from German states that had been allies of France and, of course, the country was in a parlous economic state.

Great food for thought here. Well, the Landwehr cavalry are ordered from Art Min and, with them, infantry in the stovepipe shako. Now, paler blue or dark blue Litewka? Sheepskin or the grey pointed saddlecloth with the heart? Stovepipe or classical Prussian shako? White over black pennant at least.

Half the fun is researching all that and even better when it is done for you!

For the Prussians of this period … roll the dice .. apply the headgear that results! ROFL

But honestly …. there was a huge mix of headgear due to shortages with the British contributing a lot of Portuguese or 95th Rifles uniforms/headgear/etc.

Fall of 1813 was a real zoo to research for a game I worked on. I used Summerfield as my source but one of my research helpers disagreed with one of his findings. Even Knotel is not always trustworthy with this.

Although the volume 3 of Lyall plates is restricted to the space provided by our author … but it will contain a comprehensive description of the Prussian uniforms 1815. I'll announce it again in this forum right when it is available.

Here's a link to the shop in Berlin, a descriptive text plus sample pages will be added before the expected date of appearance: link

Greetings from Berlin
Markus Stein

Now that I will watch out for. I have the earlier two already. Many thanks for your input.

I knew, when I first asked, that, for Landwehr in 1815, no-one really knows is the answer. But the variety of possibilities is fascinating.

Also, I never understood why the Prussian army of 1815 was so much more chaotically supplied than that of say 1813. Surely, with time, things can only get better the song said. Now I follow why this was not so.

Roll dice indeed!

But now I am heartbroken.

I have now started swapping heads between stovepipe shako infantry and Landwehr cavalry. Only three done out of 24 troopers. They look really good actually.

But then I noticed there was a 1st and 2nd Regt of Neumark Landwehr. 1st hardly features according to Radkin. 2nd heavily engaged and they had the traditional Prussian shako and a red and black lance pennant. Sob…

I want to contribute, to the massive diorama, folk who were actually there at "Waterloo" for this project, but I was totally taken by the stovepipe shako look. Now I think Courcelle got it right, on the day. Sob….

Deadhead,

one of the best pictorial summaries of the Prussian Landwehr were published as "Heere und Waffen" plates – these covering the Landwehr done by the famous uniform researcher Georg Schäfer in Hamburg.

I extracted the two (large) plates of the Landwehr cavalry and put this PDF on my server at PDF link

Perhaps another help for clarifying the confusion … greetings from Berlin
Markus Stein

Many thanks yet again. Once more I see the suggestion of a paler blue Litewka, but also the cossack style of dress. Fascinating!

I now have many choices and I suspect whatever I choose no-one can prove me wrong!