Help support TMP


"La guerre du Roi aux portes de l'Italie 1515-1559" Topic


4 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Please don't make fun of others' membernames.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Renaissance Media Message Board


Areas of Interest

Renaissance

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Featured Showcase Article

Oddzial Osmy's 15mm Teutonic Crossbowmen 1410

The next Teutonic Knights unit - Crossbowmen!


Featured Workbench Article

From Fish Tank to Tabletop

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian receives a gift from his wife…


Featured Profile Article

The Gates of Old Jerusalem

The gates of Old Jerusalem offer a wide variety of scenario possibilities.


2,051 hits since 1 Oct 2020
©1994-2025 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Lilian01 Oct 2020 2:36 p.m. PST

new book from a thesis
french text, 348 pages

More than a study of the Italian Wars, this book is an observation of the workings of the monarchical state at war in the provinces, through those who contribute to the king's policy. Walking between the Rhône and the Po, we will follow the organization and mobilization of captains, royal armies and populations where all defend special interests. We will learn how the monarchical state ensures the logistics necessary for its military campaigns, fortifies its territories and meets its financial needs. Finally, we will approach the daily life of war experienced and practiced by combatants.

War in the royal army under Francis I and Henry II has long been perceived in historiography as poorly adapted to modern military requirements, which are closely associated with the use of firearms and the infantry. The weight of the chivalrous traditions and the lack of a complex military art seem decisive in this lack of innovation. On the other hand, another historiographical movement sees this practice of war as more violent and modern, with the use of foot soldiers and mercenaries giving rise to a culture of carnage and a level of savagery never seen before. It is thus opposed to medieval warfare, which was more controlled in appearance.This work questions the praxis of war of the king's men and population in order to find the right level of their commitment. The Italian border, between the Rhone and the Po, in the southeastern part of the kingdom of France was chosen as the theatre of operations to be studied in this work. Its geographical marginality and the harshness of its relief offer an atypical situation to study the war in its complexity. Human, material, and logistical resources tested to their limits allow us to consider all the aspects of war. Everyone's service can only be the result of a careful thought process. It mirrors the military imperatives and the expected war effort, and it is lived in both collectively and individually. It is not improvised by mere temerity. It is to be understood through the exchanges between men and State bodies comprising the Crown and the King. It thus reveals the organization of competences between the monarchical State and the local authorities. It updates their evolutions. Lastly, it concerns the crowd of people engaged in the military and non-combatants alike, who experience the ordeals of confrontations. The latter participated in making them live their conflicts through that of the king. This study is therefore that of a society at war confronting military conjunctures with its legacy and innovations, and it rejects the idea of a binary opposition between medieval war and modern war.
link


Introduction
PDF link


I Les portes de l'Italie
II Le commandement des armées
III Les hommes de guerre du roi
IV Le soutien matériel des troupes
V La fortification de la frontière
VI Le financement de la guerre
VII L'art militaire
VIII La guerre au quotidien
IX La bataille

detailed contents
PDF link

Puster Sponsoring Member of TMP02 Oct 2020 1:05 a.m. PST

I fear my French is insufficient for that book. :-(

Legionarius02 Oct 2020 9:28 a.m. PST

Merci, je suis un rechercheur des les guerres des francaises en Italie aux 15me et 16em siecles. Un nouveaux etude bien recherche est toujours bienvenue.

Lilian17 Aug 2021 8:33 a.m. PST

review

link

A history of military society between Rhône and Po in the time of Francis I and Henri II. The light version of Julien Guinand's thesis in 2017 deals with the impact on societies that drank past armies, a history of society at war, a king, warlord and a royal administration by and for war.

In his introduction the author defines the words "to wage war". He recalls that in the 16th century the war refers to the chivalrous culture of the nobility between honor and courage to serve the king. However, war is also an all-encompassing social phenomenon, in the sense given by Marcel Mauss.

The warrior fact is therefore to be analyzed at different scales and not limited to the time of combat.
The 16th century is a pivotal period both in terms of weapons and modes of combat studied by various historians as the author recalls.

The war
The gates of Italy

This vast region between the Rhône and the Po is first of all a mountainous area, a limit which appeared to men of the 16th century difficult to cross, as the numerous texts cited testify. Administrative realities, Dauphiné, Provence, Savoy make them more or less controlled territories, a space without political unity.

Crossing on narrow and dangerous roads is made difficult by the slope. We can refer to the interesting experimental archeology project carried out in 2019 under the supervision of Stéphane Gal from the University of Grenoble-Alpes: Crossing the Alps in Armor in the Footsteps of François 1er: an unprecedented scientific experiment where scientists decided to relive the crossing of the Alps, with the experimental objective of scientifically measuring the performance achieved by the King of France and his army. This is the subject of the "MarchAlp project" (Marche Armée dans les Alpes)

The war in the mountains, on the border, is of course related to the wars in Italy which take place in the Po plain. It deserves special study.

The author offers a detailed chronology of this war between 1515 and 1559

Military art
Chapter 7 is a description of the different tactics depending on whether the threat is strong or not on the passes. It shows the army regrouping places upstream or downstream of the Alps depending on the route chosen with more caution than the often used image of the "furia francese" suggests. The prevailing idea is that you have to find the most favorable location for the fight. In fact, the fighting in the mountains was rare. War is most often a war of helpings and skirmishes, in particular to seize food. What contemporaries call the "guerre guerréante" even if some write books on the conduct of the battle; it is true that Pavie left bad memories.

The author, drawing on the work of Florence Alazard, qualifies the idea of ​​a violent war. It evokes the ardor, the disobedience of certain knights and two episodes of violence against rebels in different contexts (Tarentaise, Lubéron).
In Piedmont it is a war of position from strongholds that form a network, control the roads as shown by the examples cited.

Daily war
The author addresses this question through three characters: François d´Anglure, Guillaume de Maugiron, François de La Rivière for whom he has precise sources, which allows a detailed account of the happy or unfortunate coincidences of their military career. We see there the microcosm of a troop recruited by the captain in his province, surrounded by women, children, merchants who follow it in its march. A troop that can be recognized by its colors [see ensigns and standards in the central insert Annexes II and III]. We also observe the discontinuity of service beyond the mountains and a number of details on the daily life of a group of armed men, whether on foot or on horseback, on the quest for honor, the ambitions of ascent. social and risks too?

The battle
This last chapter is devoted to the battle of Ceresole on April 14, 1544, two armies face to face, banners unfurled. The story makes it possible to perceive the commitment of men and materials. The author explains the context of the siege of Carignan, the wait for the decision, the course of the fighting, the violence of the end of the battle and the search for the booty.

The Men
The command of the armies

If the king is indeed a warlord, in his absence on the ground the command is ensured by the "captains", group leaders in a chivalrous spirit where the acts of arms are worth recognition, without real hierarchy. The author analyzes this complexity of command. We meet well-known characters, the inevitable Bayard, but Guy de Maugiron Lieutenant General of Dauphiné represents these characters, their military and administrative functions. The constable and the marshals who support him derive their power from the crown. It is the closeness to the person of the king that confers authority when it is accompanied by real military experience. The play between power and authority is shown through several examples. Pragmatism dominates the way of ordering. But captains are also accountable to the king for their actions.
On the other hand, in the absence of maps, the use of informants is important.

The war in Piedmont remains a royal affair even in the absence of the sovereign on the ground, as evidenced by correspondence between the king and his captains.

The king's men of war
The description of the various corps: heavy cavalry, knights, light cavalry, infantry and archers is precise. The ordinance of 1534 on the arming of the companies of ordinance shows the progressive adaptation to the use of the new firearms. The recruitment and training of soldiers is specified as in the case of the light cavalry, reserved for skirmishes, which, at least initially, is recruited in the Balkans.

The "footmen" are the most numerous, Swiss mercenaries lansquenets, Germans are elite troops like the Swiss Anne de Montmorency engaged in Italy in 1522 and 1525.

The needs of war and diplomacy led to resorting to Italians, interested in serving the King of France as the French, Gascon and Provençal "footmen", whom we sought to recruit because they were considered more reliable, in particular in the defense of their region as in 1536 Provençal facing Charles V's Armies

It is therefore a disparate but large army, more than 35,000 infantrymen, more than 7,000 cavalrymen crossing the Alps in 1515. The numbers fluctuate over time. We are gradually seeing a professionalization to respond to the need to control the conquered lands. The study of Marshal Brissac's army illustrates this point.

The means of war
Material support for troops

This chapter is devoted to logistics: how to feed men and animals, store and transport arms and ammunition?

From support points on the Rhône upstream then in Piedmont (Pignerol), the crossing of the Alps is organized in increasingly structured stages. This organization is precise with a monitoring of prices and taxation of foodstuffs on the route, to avoid overflows as soldiers pass by. Local authorities are involved in this management, which can be studied in an archive (1536 – 1556) on the road from Lyon to Susa.

The fortification of the border
A slow realization of the need for new forms of fortification in relation to the development of artillery explains the many works undertaken. Facing Charles V, it was also in Piedmont that the king decided to fortify some important places (Turin, Pignerol, Fossano, Coni). The author notes the Italian know-how in this area. They are also called upon to protect Provence, an important effort that the author describes as "a royal fortifying power". Fortification is a mark of sovereignty. This policy initiated by Francis I was continued by Henry II until the defeat of St Quentin in 1557.

The financing of the war
The duration and remoteness of the fighting, the size of the troops involved, requires a real financial effort. Costing is difficult. The maintenance of a soldier is valued, for 1535, at 15 deniers / day which represents a third of his pay. Remember that the foot soldier as well as the knight must buy his equipment: a pike is worth 10 sols, the knight must spend 600 to 700 pounds, horse included. The pay is defined by royal ordinances.
We can estimate the cost of a company, that of Anne de Montmorency in 1537 costs more than 350,000 pounds for the month of November.

To these sums must be added the expenses of the fortification works.

To cope, the Royal Treasury disposes of taxes to which is added in 1549 the cut for the maintenance of the army. The revenue and expenditure mechanisms, the dangerous hard money transfers are described. We see the alienation of land from the royal domain to deal with the unforeseen and especially the recourse to borrowing. The presentation of the Brissac accounting example helps to understand the many difficulties to be overcome.

Conclusion
If during the peace of Cateau-Cambrésis the "gates of Italy" are returned to the Duke of Savoy, the author concludes on the strengthening of the royal power associated with this war.

A book that offers a new look at the French war during the Renaissance. Note the central insert of color reproductions which completes the book.

Christiane Peyronnard


Francis I's tomb : the crossing of the Alps in 1515 and the Bandes de Piémont at Ceresole 1544


Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.