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"Mad Anthony Wayne’s Legion of the United States" Topic


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Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse26 Sep 2020 8:49 p.m. PST

Before I start, did you know that Bruce Wayne (aka Batman) is a descendant of Anthony? It's true! Look it up!

Anyway, PaWM just had our annual ceremony called Renewal of the Okd Glory Army Card.
My contribution was my share of the fee, and my order was for two bags of the Mad Anthony range.

Why those? Two reasons. Fallen Timbers campaign of course.
But also, some hot Aaron Burr action. I'll be honest here. I have no clue what American infantry would have worn in 1805. We have War of 1812 uniform information aplenty. Ditto 1795 Legion.
But no 1805 that I was able to track down.
Any help here? And what manufacturer is daft enough to make 28mm figures?
So, I've decided to go with Old Glory. As a bonus, I have about a dozen Hinchliffe Napoleonic Bavarians in "helmet". These are in the "I dare you to tell me I can't use them!" category.
I'm not ignoring War of 1812 for Burr campaign figures. The Kentucky militia from Knuckleduster are fine figures. Half with slouch hat, half in "top hat".
Plus generals in bicorne. James Wilkinson and Aaron Burr.

Back to the Old Glory figures, assuming I'm doing Fallen Timbers.
I think I have too many standard bearers. Can I put that distinct head and hat on an AWI mounted general? Or would Mad Anthony at Fallen Timbers wear a bicorne or tricorne?

And would drummers wear reversed colors?

The Old Glory figures are pretty nice. Action poses, minimal flash.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse26 Sep 2020 8:51 p.m. PST

I'm quite content to cross post, by the way. I see no real need for a Northwest War separate board. grin

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP27 Sep 2020 3:52 a.m. PST

Those Anthony Wayne "American Legion" figures are very nice--and had a lasting impact on my wargaming. Old Glory took so long completing the line that I eventually gave up and sold off painted infantry at giveaway prices before the support troops came out. I haven't purchased from an incomplete line of metals since, and only once in plastics.

Pretty sure Wayne was still in a tricorne. That's how the statue downtown has him, he looks like that on the bank, and--this being Fort Wayne IN--that may not make it right, but it pretty well makes it official. I have seen plates of drummers in reversed colors, but I have not seen the authority. I'd go with them just for looks, of course.

historygamer27 Sep 2020 4:47 a.m. PST

There is an Osprey on the subject. I'm told by my friend who reenacts Wayne's Legion it's pretty good.

historygamer27 Sep 2020 4:48 a.m. PST

IIRC, both the officers and artillery wore cocked hats.

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP27 Sep 2020 5:44 a.m. PST

H Charles McBarron did a print of the Legion of the United States and it is excellent, as all of his work is.

You can find it in the series McBarron did on the American soldier. The uniform is very similar to the one worn by Continentals in the War of the Revolution-dark blue with red facings (collar, cuffs, lapels), the turnbacks were white. The collars were standup types, not those worn in the Revolution. The line infantry wore long-tailed coats, the light infantry wore shortened coats and the Revolutionary era light infantry cap.

The infantry wore round hats, some being turned up on the left side where the black cockade was worn. The hats had a fur crest and were bound in tape, the color determined sublegion. Officers hats did not have the white tape.

The Legion dragoons were similarly uniformed, with shorter coat tails for mounted troops. They wore a jockey-type cavalry helmet also with a fur crest.

The infantry wore gaiter trousers and the cavalry breeches and knee-length boots. The gaiter trousers could be either white or dark blue. Officers wore either the round hat or the cocked hat, with a more 'modern' appearance than that of the Revolution.

Wayne's order of 11 September 1792 should be helpful:

'The officers being arranged into four SubLegions, it now becomes expedient to give those Legions distinctive marks, which are to be as follows-Viz-

The first Sub Legion white binding on their caps, with white plumes and black hair.

The Second Sub Legion red binding to their caps, red plumes, with white hair.

The Third Sub Legion-Yellow binding to their caps-yellow plumes and black hair.

The fourth Sub Legion-green binding to their caps, with green plumes and white hair.'

The order was further amplified on 12 September:

'…The officers will wear plain cocked hats with no other distinctive marks but the plumes of their respective Sub Legions, except in actual service or action, when they will wear the same caps with the non-commissioned officers and privates of the respective legions.'

There is a plate on the Legion in Volume I of Military Uniforms in America:The Era of the American Revolution 1755-1795 edited by John Elting facing page 122.

The artillery assigned to the Legion was generally uniformed as the infantry. Four companies were assigned to the Legion. The cocked hat was usually replaced by a cap similar to that of the Legion cavalry with a bearskin crest. White or dark blue gaiter trousers were worn and the musicians wore reversed colors, red faced dark blue.

The uniform was prescribed on 30 January 1787:

'Hats cocked-yellow trimmings-coats blue scarlet lapels, cuffs and standing cape-length of the coat to reach to the knee, scarlet linings and yellow buttons-vests white with short flaps three buttons on each pocket-overalls-cockades of black leather round with points four inches diameter-shoulder straps-blue edged with red on both shoulders-feathers-black and red tops to rise six inches above the brim of the hat-epaulettes-the officers cold-the major 2 a single row of bullion-capts 1 epaulette on the right shoulder 2 rows of bullion-sergts 2 epaulettes yellow worsted-corporals 1 epaulette right shoulder. Swords-sabre form, yellow mounted-the majors 3 feet & capts & subs 2 1/2 feet.
The uniform of the music to be red found with blue.'

Company officers carried the spontoon, though some would be armed with a musket in the artillery companies.

A McBarron plate on the artillery can be found facing page 120 of Volume I of Military Uniforms in America.

'The Legion was the equivalent of the division of all arms which the French Army was then developing as a self-sufficient tactical organization.'-Military Uniforms in America, Volume I, page 122.

The Legion was to be composed of four sublegions each composed of two infantry battalions, one rifle battalion, one battalion (four companies) of light dragoons, and four artillery companies. The cavalry and artillery would be employed either assigned to the sublegions or separately 'as the situation required.'

The legion never reached its authorized strength of 5,120 officers and other ranks which did not include the Legion's command and staff. The 3d and 4th rifle battsions were never formed, but this shortage was partially overcome by the organization of an elite light infantry company in each infantry battalion. Further, Wayne insisted on individual marksmanship.

The three referenced uniform plates give an excellent picture of what the Legion looked like in garrison and in the field.

Anthony Wayne is pictured in the first referenced uniform plate wearking a cocked hat and a general officer's uniform of dark blue faced buff, similar to that worn by senior officers in the War of the Revolution.

For 1805-era uniforms, a good idea can be gathered using Military Uniforms in America: Years of Growth 1796-1851, edited by John Elting. Another excellent reference is A Most Warlike Appearance: Uniforms, Flags and Equipment of the United States in the War of 1812 by Rene Chartrand. The book begins in Chapter I giving an overview of US uniforms from 1779-1812 and is quite useful and highly recommended as is all of Rene Chartrand's work.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse27 Sep 2020 6:33 a.m. PST

Thanks, Kevin.
Elting, eh? I think you may have mentioned him once or twice before. grin

IronDuke596 Supporting Member of TMP27 Sep 2020 6:40 a.m. PST

A wealth of useful information Kevin.

I would add that John F. Winkler produced two excellent Osprey Campaign books that give context to this period, "Wabash 1791: St Clair's Defeat and Fallen Timbers 1794: The U.S. Army's First Victory". They are also replete with uniform information and plates.

As a sort of continuum to the War of 1812, I also recommend "Tippecanoe 1811: the Prophet's Battle" also by John F. Winkler. He also wrote a an Osprey on the Battle of the Thames, 1813.

An interesting equipment anecdote is the use of pikes during Wayne's campaign. The pike could be assembled and disassembled and slung over the shoulder when the infantryman used his musket. These pikes were trialed again by the 15th U.S. Infantry at the Battle of Fort York in April of 1813.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse27 Sep 2020 8:52 a.m. PST

Thanks, fellows.
Time to check out Amazon and ABEBooks.
Maybe I better order some American LI caps from Kings Mountain also.

Berzerker7327 Sep 2020 10:05 a.m. PST

I have always been really interested in the Northwest Confederacy War and was wondering what rules will you be using for Fallen Timbers?

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse27 Sep 2020 10:44 a.m. PST

My go to rules are "Flames of Liberty", which is nothing more than my own mashup of The Sword and the Flame with allowances for the period.

nnascati Supporting Member of TMP27 Sep 2020 11:49 a.m. PST

One of those collections I'm sorry I sold. I had Legion, militia, Indians, frontiersmen etc. we played many a great game using Our Mocassins Trickled Blood.

Normal Guy Supporting Member of TMP27 Sep 2020 5:03 p.m. PST

Those Winkler-Osprey books are all gems; lots of information about a period so few know much about.

4thsublegion28 Sep 2020 1:14 p.m. PST

Brechtel198's information is good. The Osprey book, The United States Army 1783–1811, by Jim Kocian is the source for uniforms. The Winkler books are good, but be careful with the illustration of the 4th Sublegion at Fallen Timbers. It shows the musicians in black waistcoasts and overalls. That is an error on the part of the artist. They should be white. Blue wool overalls were worn by soldiers and musicians in colder months only. The coats of the musicians were in reverse colors.

I reenact with with the 4th Sublegion at Woodville Planation in Bridgeville, PA. This link will show photos of our uniforms.
link
The green tape on our hats has faded and looks almost white.

Another group does the 1st Sublegion. This link will show more photos of Legion re-enactors as well examples of the flags of the 1st and 4th Sublegions.
link

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP29 Sep 2020 5:54 a.m. PST

The referenced Osprey is an excellent reference, but I would disagree that it is the source for uniforms. It is one of many and is not the best one to my mind.

Most Ospreys are only average, and a good portion of them are terrible. Kochan's are good and reliable, as are Rene Chartrands. Philip Katcher is also good and reliable on uniforms. Rene Chartrand's Ospreys in particular are works of scholarship and reliablility.

historygamer29 Sep 2020 7:05 a.m. PST

" Rene Chartrand's Ospreys in particular are works of scholarship and reliablility."

Ummmm, have you read his one on the Necessity campaign? The park refuses to sell it. I was not overly impressed with his one (I just purchased) on the Forbes campaign either. It was so-so. His Loyalist one was kind of weak too, should have been done by Braidsted. I find his nationalistic biases often get in his way of hoenst appraisal, and his Osprey's to be mixed, at best.

Honestly, Osprey seems to just pump these things out at times.

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP29 Sep 2020 7:48 a.m. PST

A few of the pictures in the two links provided by 4th sublegion showed the casting of howitzers in sand molds.

The Vebruggens in Great Britain and Gribeauval and Maritz modernized the casting of cannon as well as how they were bored out.

The gun tubes had been cast around a solid core and then the bore would be drilled, or bored, out but that was a practice that made the boring process uneven and generally not in line with the gun tube which made for inaccurate firing.

The Vebruggens and Maritz cast their gun tubes solid and then had them bored out uniformly on a horizontal boring machine powered by either horses or water. Previously the boring had been vertical and the method of boring also contributed to the non-uniformity of the bore.

From Louis de Tousard's American Artillerist' Companion, Volume II, 527:

'Cannon were formerly cast with a core, for which purpose a shaft of iron, covered with clay and supported at the breech by an iron frame with three legs, was placed in the center of the mold. But, notwithstanding all the precautions taken to place this core with precision, the bore was never perfectly straight, nor was the thickness uniform, because the core could not sustain the fall and heat of so great a quantity of metal without bending and warping considerably. Chambers or cavities were also occasioned by the air contained in the clay around the shaft, which the heat expands, and which lodges in the piece, finding no issue when the metal has passed it. To obviate these defects, guns are now cast solid, by which method the bores are always straight, and the chambers very rare.'

'In the method of casting with a core, as well as in that of casting solid, the air enclosed in the mould, and expanding by the heat occasions chambers. It is thought that this would be avoided if the melted metal, instead of falling from the top of the mold, were to enter below; the air would then easily escape as fast as the metal would rise in the mould.'

'The principal operations in the casting of artillery consist, 1sr, in the modelling; 2d, in the fusing and casting of the metal; 3d, in the boring; 4th, in the piercing of the vent and repair of imperfections in the casting; and 5thly, in the proof and visits which ensure the quality of the same guns.'-531

And it should be noted that instead of using sand moulds, the new casting methods used cast iron moulds.

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