"A Look At How Greek And Turkish Air Forces Stack Up" Topic

"With tensions rising over energy reserves in the Aegean Sea, the disgruntled neighbors have air arms that are well-equipped and at high readiness.

Greece and Turkey have a long history of animosity despite both being NATO members. However, there's a real concern that the current spike in tensions — mainly related to control of oil and gas reserves and maritime rights in the eastern Mediterranean — could escalate. If they do, the respective air arms of the two countries are likely to be heavily engaged, so it's a good time to take a detailed look at their respective assets and how their capabilities compare.

It's worth noting here that the Hellenic and Turkish Air Forces regularly spar over the Aegean Sea. Turkey and Greece broadly have a long history of confrontation, including an all-out war fought in support of competing factions in Cyprus in 1974. That independent Mediterranean island, which is still divided between areas under the control of ethnic Greek and Turkish Cypriots to this day, remains a focus of antagonism between the two countries. However, current developments in the region have caused alarm in both NATO and the European Union…"

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Amicalement
Armand

It appears to me that they're about evenly matched, with the Greeks perhaps having the edge, not having suffered fairly recent pilot purges like the Turks have.

I understand why the Turkey of Kemal Attaturk, the democratic republic, committed to fair elections, rule by the people's elected representatives, freedom of citizens, education for girls, etc was welcomed into NATO.

What I dont understand is why the Turkey of Erdogan is still a member state of NATO, opposed as he clearly is, to all of Attaturk's ideals?

Glup!…

Amicalement
Armand

nsolomon99,

For most of it's time in NATO Turkey was never a ", committed to fair elections, rule by the people's elected representatives, freedom of citizens."

There were military coups in 1960, 1971, 1980 and 1997. The military had a huge political role even during democratic periods.

Human rights have never been respected in Turkey – there was always excessive control of the media and since the 1940s many media organisations have been closed down, journalists arrested and often murdered. Gross violations of human rights be it against left wing activists or Kurds. Torture has been widespread even after Turkey opened up in late 1990-early 2000s.

Even democratic governments used right wing death squads such as the Grey Wolves (who were funded under NATO Operation Gladio as "stay behind" forces in case of Soviet invasion) to enforce their will including murder of government opponents.

Between 1991-2001 alone there was over 1200 extra judicial killings by government groups in Turkey and they continued since then (though numbers hard to come by due to censorship).

Even democratic governments resorted to martial law for prolonged periods and then unleashed their paramilitary and secret police forces.

Ataturk's vision was held together through violence and barbarity under a thin veneer of civility. Nothing has changed under the new Neo-Ottoman Sultan.

By the way this analysis is one of the best ones posted up here.

I don't think 18 Rafales will change much for the Greeks. However the proposed squadron of F-35s probably will!