"A serious question and not political" Topic

Were there black troopers in the roman legion (regular legionaries and optios ) I just started to watch a show called Britania and there seemed to be a lot I understand Numidians were in the auxiliary as Cavalry but not sure how accurate this is. Thanks for the help

Once citizenship was granted to everyone in the empire, it would be more likely (212 AD). I'm not familiar with the show but imagine it's set much earlier (after the conquest?). At that point it would be very, very unlikely. Citizens formed the legions. Others formed the auxiliaries.

Yeah Britannia looks more like a 1990s fantasy series than anything historical.
The chances of there being a black guy in the Roman army at the time is incredibly remote. The Roman Empire included the entire North African coastline but the local population were caucasians with skin colour ranging from pale to very dark and the same is true today.
It's likely there were darker skinned Roman soldiers for sure and the exact legions involved are not known but given the presence of an elephant or two it seems likely that North African troops were there but not as regular legionaries. The majority of Roman troops who served in Britain over the centuries were from Europe, particularly northern and central Europe.

Actual black people were a rarity which is why like the Greeks the Romans had a whole sideline in art and nick nacks devoted to "Ethiopians".

If you mean that Sky show 'Britannia' then remember it is just sword and sandals fantasy, I wouldn't rely on anything in it as even vaguely historical.It is certainly possible that the auxiliaries could be from Africa. As Damion said, I am not sure that all Numidians were black rather than the usual Mediterranean skin types

I believe I read [somewhere] fairly recently that the Numidians were the ancestors of the Berber tribes.

Wasn't there, at some time, an Emperor of Negro origin?

Septimius Severus was of Punic ancestry… i.e. Phoenician (Semetic), but his family had Italian ancestors mixed in by the time he was sired…

There are black Africans in North Africa, the Nubians for example, who came up from central/east Africa. People were much more mobile in this period than is commonly assumed.

The whole white/black dichotomy is not a distinction the Romans would have understood, but certainly some auxiliaries were recruited from areas where the population would have had a hard time getting a motel room in the segregated south. My Numidians last time out were painted darker than my Romans, and I expect this to be true again when I remobilize them.

In a Roman legion I'd say go early or go late. In the Civil Wars, there were locals in at least some legions, and I'm sure eventually Roman citizenship was extended to towns with very little actual Italian ancestry.

Roman citizenship was extended to auxiliaries after serving 25 years. So the father could be an auxiliary, and his son could then join the legion. It was during the Julio-Claudian dynasty that the auxiliaries were transformed into regulars, so it's just possible that there may have been 1 or 2 during the time of the Britannia TV series.

Agree with the overall thread – the Romans cared not one whit about skin colour, the only thing they card about was Civis Romanus Sum – Roman citizenship

That being said, legionary heavy infantry were mostly recruited from Italy/Gaul – as noted, though, auxila were recruited from areas with lots of dark skinned people and in any legion numbers of legionaries and auxila were about equal

And there were auxilary cohorts from far afield in Roman Britain – Gaius Suetonius Paulinus had a cohort of Thracian archers and under Hadrian there were cohorts from Gaul, Spain, Dalmatia and Thrace in Britain

While I tend to agree that the Romans were colour blind, in that the whole black/white thing is meaningless to them.

however I think Damion is correct here, black Africans tended not to live within the Empire. So, I would expect the numbers recruited into the army to be very small.

Yes I know about German recruitment later in the Empire's history, but with deserts to the south, I think that would limit migration.

Th Bantu expansion which had the dominant negroid traits associated with those ethnic groups today, did not occur until after Rome fell.

Do I care? Not on a modern TV show. I'd not go to one for any historical detail.

If a show is using history to promote itself then it should try to be somewhat accurate.

There's a movie called Gladiatress which this series was possibly inspired by. It's pretty awful in its own way though I enjoyed it and it's done in a light comedy style.

I thought Brittania was hilarious. It is history of a sort, but of the fantasy/fable type as the spirits of Britain do battle with the demons of Rome.

Worth watching just for David Morrisey hamming it up. The Roman encampment does have a beautifully done palisade, even the real Kent doesn't have quite so many mountains:)

Our US pals might find the language somewhat "coarse". Roll on the third series.

If you want historical accuracy there's always this:

YouTube link

There were black African people from central Africa in North Africa from at least 2800 BP, so it is highly likely that they could have found their way around the entire Roman area. Nubians looked very much like many modern sub Saharan peoples.

Sorry

You will have to tell me what BP means. Is this new? I cannot find it in Google.

BP = Before Present – so about 220 AD in old money.

Must be the daftest and most useless way of describing the date because it is incorrect immediately after it has been written.

I think BP has some currency with carbon dating due to the large time scale.
BP to me though is a petrol station.

@Gildas

2800 BP is surely 780 BC in old money !

I would think that the chance of there being any "black" legionaries or even auxiliaries in the Roman army of this vintage is pretty much 0.

Yeah, of course it is. Can't think what I was doing.

Numidians, Sudanese & Ethiopians all spring to mind as possibilities – at least as Auxilliaries. All relatively warlike and with long histories of contact with the Mediterranean & Mid Eastern civilisations.

Not sure about any recruitment from the nomad tribes in inland North Africa though – did the Romans have much direct contact with them apart from as raiders ?

Rome traded into Sub-Saharan Africa but, as far as I'm aware, through intermediaries in the main.

Thank you for explaining the term BP.

I agree that that is a daft system and fervently hope it does not catch on.

Sorry should have explained. The present in before present (BP) is in fact a fixed date (01/01/1950), used as mentioned in carbon dating (I'm an archaeologist by profession). It is better than BC if you aren't Christian, although personally I would have no problem with using 800BC.

The Romans did have contact with Nubians and ancient Ethiopians which were outside the empire but have fairly positive relationships with it. Representatives of both these peoples may have lived in North African provinces where Rome definitely did recruit soldiers from. The idea that all Romans were white is based on 19th century conceptions about the period (see Mussolini's perception of ancient Rome and indeed Hitler's too).

Gotta say, I find threads like this amazingly interesting. Thanks to all who have contributed. And curse you for the seeds of interest planted in another possible period.

My, un-researched thoughts on this.

Yes…BUT in very small numbers. You could represent this in a wargame unit, though, if you wished.

Some adventurous people MAY have 'wandered' quite a bit…whether through trading, expulsion or plain 'wanderlust'.
AND there was the slave trade…especially for 'Exotics'.

I find it very plausible that individuals of darker skin tone may have ended up recruited into Auxiliary units and served their time.
Valued slaves MAY have achieved manumission…in some form.
Their progeny COULD have served in The Legions.
SOME may have achieved Rank through ability or Patronage.

From what I have read, Patronage was a massive influence on Roman life in the higher circles To get votes, you need 'voters'!…so, it was both a Duty and a possible advancement for some.

Skin tones WILL have varied greatly, just consider the unit and don't overdo the numbers…you don't have 5000 troops…so maybe the odd individual. Lol.

I find the casting of many recent 'Historical (?)' Films and TV shows very 'jarring' with what 'I' perceive to have been. BUT, I wasn't there, so do not know…and, just as Producers will cast whoever They like for roles, (Some castings are excellent, if unlikely!), so can a gamer, 'recruit' whoever he wants into his units!!!
BOTH ARE PERCEPTIONS! LOL!

PS: Gildas Facit: You are so right about the ridiculousness of BP! LOL!

newarch: Very Sorry, did not READ your posts…very much correct AFIK…I have tendency to 'scan' and miss things…and go on with my own thoughts! Apologies!
BP 1950 datum line, fine…for Geologic, but for 'Human' history?… BP just throws me off!
Nubians and Ethiopians… exactly…but there MAY have been SOME, very limited, 'contact' with tribal peoples from further South, as well.

As an archaeologist, you will be very much aware that 'theory' is so subject to change and interpretation!

As a LOL…can you imagine how many cats would in the pigeons….IF a definitely African item…or ancient CHINESE!!! …was dug up in UK? Maybe??? :)

You 'Live in Interesting Times'. Enjoy! :)

Thanks for all the responses. And even though I was not looking for a historacly accurate show in this (Britania, I mean they play Donavan's Hurdy gurdy man as one of the songs) This still stood out to me, in an odd way. Tahnk again

It is pretty clear from Giovanni Forni's Il Reclutamento delle Legioni da Augusto a Diocleziano that during the first century AD (sorry, I am too old to change dating conventions), legionaries were primarily drawn from the Italian proletariat.
While it is true that Africans (a geographic term for the Romans) were recruited, they are exclusively for legio III Augusta and many of these "Africans" were ex castris, from the camp, meaning their father was a legionary himself (the mother could be local). And III Augusta is unusual in that many troops were transferred in from legions all over the empire, so there were troops from a variety of provinces during the later 2nd and 3rd centuries. It was also unusual in that it had the same camp for 200 or so years with almost no movement.
So to the original poster's question, in the first century (I it is very unlikely that one would find a non-Italian in the legions in A.D. 43 (as I recall, that is the time frame since Vespasian is a legate). The answer likely lies more in Sky/Amazon policies than any historical evidence.