"Are we now looking at the end of gaming conventions?" Topic

They would be very wise to just extend everyone's membership for another year. Not like they need the money.

"They would be very wise to just extend everyone's membership for another year. Not like they need the money"

Correct… no overhead cost for cons in 2020????

C'mon my genius friends. Somebody event Zoom Wargaming without the lawsuit of course. I've zoomed meetings and church. Might as well Zoom Wargaming.

Come to think of it, mine is due to expire, too, in August. I usually have a note in my calendar, but not this year. And no notification that I have seen, either.

I just got my renewal notice.

I'd renew at one convention a year to keep a flea market table, but even if they all came off, driving distance and access are problems. Cold Wars and Fall In are out of reach as they keep marching east, and my fellow flea marketeers gave me no happy reports on the LCCC. I'll have to think it over.

On the wider question, though, I see companycmd still hasn't explained what he means by "meaningful" conventions, which makes that part of the OP hard to answer.

The LLCC is a very nice facility. If the BoD is smart they'll reappoint Joby to keep running it.

The good news is they can't go any farther east than Ocean City, Maryland.

Bermuda is pretty east…

Are there Gnomes in Bermuda, Viscount?

You could be the first to run a Gnome game there.

My $.02 USD,

First, It might take some time for the correct Covid-19 situation to get in hand. However, I believe that eventually it will and conventions will again be held.

Second, Why is it so hard for so many of us to figure out how to properly wear a face mask. Quickly looking at the first page photograph's, I count at least three not properly wearing their masks.
In order to be effective, the mask needs to cover both the wearer's nose and mouth.
For all the good that it doing, the fellow who is wearing his as a chin protector, might as well just not be wearing one!
Tom Semian
Irvine, PA. 16329

Agree – we may have a complete wash out for conventions in 2020, and maybe there will be few if any really big shows in 2021 (Salute – I'm thinking of you here!) but eventually things will start up again.

Why would vendors bother to do more than give out flyers? Well, if they can get the cash off you for product at the show then that's better than a flyer that is taken with a cheery "I must order some!" and then is never acted on !

Viscount:

I didn't include Bermuda because the GM's would have a difficult time unloading their game boards and scenery there.

But we could have a swinging time in Puerto Rico!

47Ronin,

I do a write-up of troop options for Canadian Bermuda for Gnome Wars. Officially Unofficial, but they'll make an appearance at a live con one day. link

Tumbleweed,
How about a seven-day cruise of the Caribbean, a Historicon at Sea? We could even dedicate the port days exclusively to vendors, although I demand they set up like a straw market. Hair braiding optional (and in cases of many vendors, impossible).

This year would have been our 14th year cruising. Despite the horror stories, the one or two occasions I've been under the weather post-cruise was nothing compared to the usual con crud.

VisountEric:

A splendid idea! My wife and I are also avid cruisers. But I think the GM's would have a very hard time getting their terrain on and off the ships.

Then again, with all of the fun things going on aboard the ship, who would need gaming?

Now, now Rudy, best to present a better context between Covid and H1N1. "From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (range: 195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (range: 8868-18,306) in the United States due to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus."

With Covid, we've had 6.4 million cases that we know of. And 190K deaths, or over 10 times the number of H1N1 deaths. 10 times, or an order of magnitude is nothing to dismiss lightly. Also, some rather nasty long term effects Covid is having that were nonexistent with H1N1.

Not to mention, the stats you correctly cite for H1N1 were compiled after the virus had run its course. We are nowhere near that point with Covid, so the comparison is invalid. It only makes the over 10 times death rate of Covid more concerning, because that is only going to get worse.

I do hope a safe vaccine is developed and that effective treatments are also found. I miss the conventions and many other things as well. As an old guy with high blood pressure and a vulnerable blood type, I'm not going to take any unnecessary risks, regardless of what others may say or do.

So based on the latest, I don't think you'll see a return to conventions till later in the summer. My guess is that Hcon will not get in under the wire, especially if a vaccine that comes in two parts, and that must be taken at least a month aport, only arrives sometime in April. The math just doesn't work out there.

Mitch , Your numbers are correct ,but keep in mind this time around DEATHS that are be counted are slightly tainted . People that are dying of multiple issues are being counted as Covid death just because they show positive for it while they may have died anyway . That fact seems to have been lost in the statistics for whatever reason . It would be nice to know actual facts so we all could make better judgments on this !

For larger conventions, it doesn't matter what the facts are. The only thing that matters is what the governors, county executives, and their health officials think.

So a governor might loosen the restrictions for a state, but county executive doesn't. Seeing this all over the place.

If Conventions are no more or at least weird with mandatory masks , no hand shaking etccc from here on in, I will sell all my armies now while they are worth something and take up stamp collecting or something . What makes Cons so much fun is the social aspect of it and if that's done ,what's the point ? Its been a good 50 year run . Cheers and good luck !

coolyork that's the same feeling i am getting reading this thread. If the social aspect of this hobby is in question due to fear. Then why have a convention/gathering.

Coolyork I agree the cons have evolved for me over the years from first just shopping trips, and then to trying out various rules to a realization that it is about the socializing. I miss playing with my once a month gaming group. But this will all past and yes in the moment it just sucks, but it will past.

dapeters , My feeling exactly ! I too use to mainly go for the shopping ie dealers and fleamarket. Last few years I have been running games with many of my players becoming friends . We would play in each others games , sometimes eat together and at the very least end up buying each other a beer or two . If were in for a odd and creepy social adjustment with masks , no shaking hands , no hugging , everyone stands 6 feet away, bring your own dice then I will gladly walk away and just have fond memories . On the other side maybe things will go back ?

Based on what the CDC has been saying (though that can change), and the hoped for vaccines, it looks like things have a chance to start returning to some sort of normalicy next fall. What the changes will be as a result of all this is yet to be seen.

Here is an article that will shed more uncertainty on the future of cons in PA:

link

history gamer , Isn't that the same women who took her mother out of her nursing home the day before she moved Covid patients in ?

Indeed it is, but this person has the ear of the PA governor, for good or bad, and state restrictions will come from him. Additional county restrictions may exceed state restrictions, which has been the case all over the place.

Her comments make total sense, specifically this;

"When the vaccines are available … they're not going to be a magical cure for coronavirus and will not immediately end the pandemic," she said.

Levine likened it to the flu vaccine, which protects against the most prevalent strains of the virus and can lessen the symptoms for those who do catch it. She said health officials expect the eventual covid-19 vaccine to be similar.

"It really is not going to change the policies and procedures that we have or they would have until we get enough of the people in the commonwealth vaccinated that there are significant decreases in the community spread," she said."

She is spot on; it's not going to be some magic cure that gets rid of the virus, all a vaccine is going to do is lessen the severity of it on you if you catch it.

Period.

So that being said, IMO mask wearing, social distancing and limiting indoor gathering capacities is going to be "a thing" for a long, long time.

The Fall of 2021 is being very optimistic.

Double G is right, but I'll go further. I believe the convention as we know it is gone. Covid is going to be here until a way is found to eradicate it. This is not the flu.
There no way to social distance at the gaming table. There is no way to keep your hands clean for the duration of a game. Too many strangers whose habits and views on covid I know nothing about.There will be people who won't wear a mask.As far as vendors are concerned there will be no way to safely conduct business. Business will have to be conducted on line. I really believe that conventions are not coming back.

Never seems to me to be a very long time.

Conventions may see a drop in attendance and be required to tailor their programs to correspond with a changing demographic. That's expected.

That being said, stick me in the arm and send me on my way. People are going to have to find a way of living with this virus and get on with their lives.

90% effective is good enough for me… just need to wait patiently until its available wether thats days, weeks, months….

TRU

This is not the "End of gaming conventions", by any means. This does require future conventions to be adaptable and flexible. Twisted Lords and Autumn Wars both ran in the last few weeks.

Admittingly they were smaller conventions (each around 100 attendees). They were complete with roughly 30 events apiece, tournaments, vendors, award ceremonies, concessions and room blocks. Taking advantage of the venue's increased space offering at reduced rates allowed for well below government sanctioned capacity numbers.

They both complied with Federal, State, and County health programs as well as the host property's. The organizing body each had their own additional procedures in place. But they did happen and will do so again.

Far off in the future are the 50k attendance of Gencon, or the 5k of Adepticon. Man is a herd/social animal and we will find a way.

As we work out the plans for a reduced footprint Little Wars (300 attendees?) we are acutely aware of the attrition. Right now we have those who can accept a mask and distancing policy. (The very nature of the gaming table lend's itself to distancing). At some point when there is a vaccine more will come back.

Alas for some, they will never return, while unfortunate, it is their choice. So in a ironic example of a self-fulfilling prophesy-for them, the cons are over.

So for those who claim that this is the end of gaming conventions, we have a space for you. In between the Admirals who said you cannot use torpedo planes in Pearl Harbor, and the Generals who claimed you could not maneuver armor forces through the Ardennes.

That attitude is what's causing the numbers to rise. There is no way to have players on one side of table stay six feet apart unless you have six feet of side space per player. 3 players would then require 18 feet of one side, with at least 6 feet across. With gamers getting older, not younger, the risk is greater and not worth it.

Well that settles it then, we'll all just game in 54mm scale. Easier to see & handle, large boards required. Win win.

With so much entrenched paranoia, it make little use to try and debate. However so much is based on assumption, I have to counter.

"Numbers to rise" : Having run an 3 day con, with no cases, I beg to differ. Also, currently running a weekly game night with an average of 11 players, since mid-June. Again no cases. (We allow no more than 12 a night)

"Distancing": Our tables are 15x6, and we have used phased activation, where not every needs to be moving at the same time. (making sense yet?)

"Gamers getting older": Well this is the main issue. If you and your group are not bringing in younger gamers, then all of this is a moot point. If not Covid, there are a myriad of other illnesses that will deplete our veteran ranks, sooner rather than later. (myself included)

Our gaming group's demographics:

17-25- x7
26-45- x8
46-65- x16
66+ – x7

To reiterate, the topic was "The end of gaming conventions" Just because it may be true for you, it is not true for the hobby.

everyone is entitled to their opinion, including me. Just because no one in your group has gotten sick doesn't mean no one will. If one person does get sick, by the time your group finds out more will already have gotten sick.

So true. We are all Frag Grenades just waiting to go off.

With gamers getting older, not younger, the risk is greater and not worth it.

Which non-gamer groups are getting younger, and how do I volunteer? :)

So vaccines come out and people will get the shots. At least one of the vaccines is reported 90% effective. It will take time – likely the entire spring and summer of 2021, but we should be good to go after that.

If HMGS were smart, they would go big on Fall In in 2021, treat is like Hcon, add more days, don't screw around with the flea market times, etc.

I'd run a reduced rate for the dealers, and make sure that they reserve more rooms at the two attached hotels than they usually do (which have proven completely inadequate for both FI and Hcon in recent years).

The people will return. But, I'd start planning and adverstising for that now.

Who ever thought this would be a thing ?

Had a doctors appointment today, just routine, first time I've seen my primary since this whole shitshow started.

He told me the vaccine will be rolled out in April for the general population, a 6 month vaccination period to get the majority of the population taken care of, which will bring us to October.

So Historygamer is right, Fall In is looking like the more likely jumping off point.

I'm getting it as soon as it's available to me; the X factor is will you need two doses, how effective will it be and for how long, the 90% number sounds encouraging, we'll have to see about that……………then throw in the "I've never had a flu shot and I've never gotten the flu, so I'm not getting a COVID vaccine either"…….crowd.

Good luck with that plan; this is NOT the flu.

Not even close.

But hey, we're all free to do what we want.

Just ask all the ballbags who refuse to wear a mask.

I sure hope the cons come back in 2021. I have finally reached the empty nest financially able part of my 50's and was really looking forward to attending cons regularly.

I have committed to SYW con in August so far, crossing fingers that this will at least stay on.

Talked to a lot of people who have received the second moderna shot. Pretty miserable after affects, young and old alike.

I hope the SYW con can go too, but happening and what restrictions might still be in place are two different things. :-(

Historygamer:

My dentist's assistant told me the same thing, but she added that it quickly went away.

I think it can vary from person to person. Some have no after affects, for others they go a couple of days.

I guess I will find out for myself next Tuesday when I drive for two hours down to South Boston, VA for my shot.

It was the last of about twenty possible sites for CVS in Virginia that still had a reservation available.