"I Salute Bastille Day to all those who care." Topic

I have for years focused most of my wargaming reading and energy on the French army from 1740 to 1815 – Ancien Regime to fin d'Empire Premier at Waterloo, and am decidedly pro-French.

I understand that many in France are still of royalist sympathy, so I salute those who would be free of "the devine right of kings."

GdeP

A lot of my American wargaming friends like to put down the French as "surrender monkeys", but I have to remind them that without French involvement in our war of independence we would all be Canadians now.

And don't you forget it

The dismal French performance in 1940 should not eclipse three hundred years of military valour

After all, the Wehrmacht didn't capture Moscow but Napoleon did!

I still sympathise with the brave Swiss soldiers who died defending it.
The French were well rid of the Kings in the 18th and 19th centuries.
We Brits got good old William of Orange to clear our last one out! – our Royal families have been much better since!

Vive le France!

Mort aux Tyrans

Monarchs have been one of the Germany peoples' most successful exports – together with professional soldiers electrical goods and overspecified motor vehicles (with or without high velocity cannon)

Bless them.

July 14th is a great excuse for a parade and singing of what is a great song.

But it failed and dismally. Not just due to foreign intervention (Indeed not remotely due to, because of some great battlefield victories).

The Republic of Libertie, Egalite, Fraternite etc became instead an Empire, ruled by what was intended to be a familial dynasty, based on a crowned, non-elected, ruler of France. Very effective chap, no doubt, but no liberal or democrat. Not very tall either (joke)

That was replaced by two Restorations and then various versions of Monarchical rule for decades to come. The true creation of the French Republic owes more to half a dozen Zulus with Assegais or Otto von Bismarck at Sedan than the storming of an almost empty prison.

Mort aux Cons (a famous jeep, Paris August 1944)

I do thank the French for the help with the American revolution. As for Napoleonic armies never painted a French figure

There's a lot to be said for Canadians…

Ca ira!

I used to play with Bill Devine. But you probably mean "divine right."

And I refuse to mock the sad end of the French Revolution while some of my countrymen are proposing to replace the police with a Committee of Public Safety. (Yes, in just those words. Evidently he hadn't heard of the previous usage. Or perhaps he had.)

A great excuse to go back to the store and buy a bag of bleu, blanc, et rouge M&Ms.
Grelber

Liberte, egalite, fraternite! Until Robespierre ruined it and Napoleon took it over…

I was too tired to even open a French red last nite… maybe today, though we've passed on…
Funny, had the same weather in '84, and it was bloody Summer then!
d

Vive la France eternelle.

National days are always nice: I have been in Paris for the Quatorze Juillet, Halifax for Canada Day, and home for the 4th. They are a nice reminder that honorable patriotism is alive and well among ordinary people.

If military prowess is a good thing then the people of France have plenty to be proud of. Vive la revolution.

No one of my association uses the term 'surrender monkeys' but I first heard the term used by American soldiers I worked alongside in Afghanistan.

I think it's used to refer to their performance in WWII. I observe that they didn't give up without a fight and whilst they were compelled to admit defeat British forces fled. Plenty of French fled but most of them had nowhere left to flee to.

In that particular war US forces did quite a bit of fleeing and surrendering before Japanese forces early on as did Commonwealth troops including Australians (my lot) and plenty of everyone went into the bag (that's surrendering) at places such as Singapore. In fact, 1940 and 1941 was what must have felt like an endless series of Allied defeats with little respite.

The French did lose Indo-China later in the 20th century to be sure but then do any of us need to be reminded of the cluster which was the Vietnam war?

No, on the whole the French have plenty of glory if war and victory is glorious. Defeat can also be glorious and to be frank, given what happened to Germany in WWII; if that's what happens when you are not a 'surrender monkey' then I think the French made a damn smart move. I understand occupation wasn't easy – I expect most Europeans will understand what that means.

Y'know there was retreat and there was surrender in 1840 and sure enough in the midst of swingeing defeat men lost heart but I'm not sure, other than the odd freaked out individual, anybody fled. I think that is unworthy.

'Cheesing eating Surrender monkeys' was coined ironically by the writers of 'The Simpsons'( and put in the mouth of a man with a bad Scots accent) in the wake of outrage at the French declining to join the "Coalition of the-" whatever- in 2003, and then taken up as a ingrained insult, referencing 1940; conveniently forgetting the French had been there for GW One in 1991 as part of the legitimate UN operation.

C'est a dire-'1940,' naturellement.

Vive l'Empereur! He brought the Revolution to a successful conclusion.

and ultimately an end to himselve

He certainly created a new type of Monarchy. Whether any of the revolutionaries of the 1790s would have called that a successful conclusion, I don't know enough to judge.
I do have some suspicion that the Napoleonic First Empire may not have not have been quite the form of government that those who stormed the Bastille may have had in mind in 1789- but who can tell?
Anyway- 14th of July 1789 was a truly significant event well worth recalling so thank you GdP.

42flanker,

It seems my choice of terms has challenged your view of events. I meant no offense. I understand that national identity and patriotism can affect how people interpret history. FYI according to the Oxford English dictionary the term 'flee' is defined: "Run away from a place or situation of danger." I am satisfied this adequately described the situations I referred to previously.

'unworthy' is defined: "Not deserving respect or attention." A bit severe.

Well, spare me the patronising assumptions about national identity and patriotism, if you would be so kind.

As for the adequacy of your descriptions, in my opinion dictionary definitions are frequently the last refuge of a scoundrel, but I would be surprised if your lexicon of choice does not gives a broader range of definitions for 'unworthy'than the one you offer.

Be that as it may, I know that the 51st Highland Division attached to French 10e armee neither fled nor ran away in June 1940 but fought with the French to the end.

Other units elsewhere also fought til over run. The cemeteries in France and Belgium are not the resting places of Frenchmen or Britons who ran away.

link

The video is no longer available alas …

Watch the video…

link

I am a serious Napoleonic era war gamer since 1981, have thousands of figures and not 1 French figure and even at conventions never commanded a French unit.
I never miss Bastille Day celebration