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"Mein Panzer Question" Topic

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ScoutJock01 Jul 2020 2:38 p.m. PST

So I took the plunge and bought these rules. I haven't completely read through them yet, but I did notice the while they claim to include Cold War and Ultra-modern updates, the chapters addressing those periods have very limited vehicle lists. According to the forums on the ODGW site there is a modern update in the works but nothing appears to have been done since 2011.

So I am looking for compatible stats for some of the more common Cold War vehicles, specifically Israeli Centurians and T54/55 tanks. Does anybody have any house or pre-release stats for those tanks?

Thanks in advance.

ODGW Kenny01 Jul 2020 3:12 p.m. PST


Thanks for the "plunge" I hope you find the rules fun and many hours of play.

While MP does have all the rules needed for post WWII scenarios you are correct that vehicle data stats are minimum. MP covers WWI thru Modern eras with combined arms forces.

We have "databooks" covering these separate eras.

Spanish Civil War
WWII Secret Weapons

…and we are working on an 1948/1956 Arab/Israeli databook. I've been burned with a release date before so all I say is we hope to have it out soon.

Now while you wait, PM me and I can give you the pre-release stats you are looking for.

It's been along time coming but there is light at the end of the table and it's not a train! <grin>


Paulinthehills01 Apr 2021 1:56 p.m. PST

I just ordered the rules to check them out also, fingers crossed. I've played Tank Charts years ago but also interested in a system that will let me put a lot of armor on the board without completely bogging down the game and still have some good detail. From what I've read this system seems to fit the bill.

Captain Pete01 Apr 2021 4:34 p.m. PST

I have enjoyed playing Mein Panzer over the years and have introduced a fair number of people to the game. For me, it has the right amount of detail and complexity for what I like.
Playing the armor game is probably the best way to get acquainted with the rules and introducing new people to the game.

Here are a few pictures of a game I hosted at Imperial Outpost Games in the Phoenix are back in 2018. There were four of us playing and three were new to the game. My friend Scott helped out by providing assistance to the new guys.

There were 2 under strength British squadrons vs. 2 understrength German Panzer III companies with each player controlling about 10 vehicles divided into 3 platoon elements. This was a simple meeting engagement with control of the town and casualties inflicted to have a focus for the game. The Germans won this one but everyone had fun.

pfmodel01 Apr 2021 8:13 p.m. PST

If you have a copy of FFT3 you could compare Mein-Panzer WW2 specs with the FFT3 specs and then use that to convert to Cold war specs. I must admit never thinking about using these rules for cold war periods, that could be a good project for an enthusiastic player until official values came out.

Paulinthehills01 Apr 2021 9:50 p.m. PST

Great pictures! Thanks for sharing, I'm now furiously painting tanks as I await the arrival of the rules. ;)

Captain Pete04 Apr 2021 3:45 p.m. PST

I hope you enjoy the game, Paulinthehills!

Wolfhag Supporting Member of TMP04 Apr 2021 10:13 p.m. PST

Great looking game. It shows the advantage of that scale which is why I play it too.


Paulinthehills07 Apr 2021 5:10 p.m. PST

I receive the rules and after a high level read thru I'm very impressed! Looking forward to actually playing!

Captain Pete08 Apr 2021 9:04 a.m. PST

Hi Paulinthehills! I hope you like playing with them. Here are a few pictures of a Battle of the Bulge game we ran back in 2016 or so. It represents the initial attack by elements of the 2nd Panzer against a company from 28th Infantry Division in Marnach during the opening phase of the Bulge.

Paulinthehills09 Apr 2021 1:11 p.m. PST

Looks awesome!!

Captain Pete09 Apr 2021 5:37 p.m. PST

Thanks very much, Paulinthehills! This game had infantry, transports, artillery, and other rules in play. The main problem was that as some of the players left the game it increased the workload for the rest of us to a point where things became unmanageable.

One thing that I learned was that big games while impressive to look at, can sometimes be more game than some players care to commit to for the duration.

When I host games for beginners especially, I try to give each player a small number of units to handle so that they are not overwhelmed and can just enjoy the game. Tank games are the best for beginners.

For learning the infantry rules, I would recommend either having an infantry only game or just add a few vehicles in for support. Artillery can be added to taste.

Mark 110 Apr 2021 3:49 p.m. PST

I have enjoyed playing Mein Panzer over the years and have introduced a fair number of people to the game.

I am one of those guys that Pete helped introduce to the Mein Panzer rules. Although in my case (vs. what is shown in the pics above) the introduction was done via internet fora, not in person … as may well be the case here.

Some images of my gaming with MP:

The village of Hir Moussa in the Ousseltia Valley, Tunisia.

Italian forces of the Superga Divsion having a very rough time taking the village from Juin's French defenders.

A very tough time…

Elements of the US 601st TD Battalion, operating under orders of the US 1st AD, move in to re-enforce the French forces defending the the village, sealing the deal for the allied armies in the Ousseltia Valley.

Now looking to another theater of operations…

The village of Loibokivka, just south of Petrikovka, where the Pasubio and Torino Divisions of the CSIR have encircled several Soviet divsions, pinning them against the Dniepr River.

The Red Army is determined to break out of the encirclement, and push what armor they have forward to rush the small bridge at Loibokivka.

The Italians of Tornino are prepared for this, and hold the bridge with withering artillery and AT gun fire.

The Red Army forces are determined to break through the cordon, though, and push infantry up through the swampy fringes north of the bridge.

Italians push their infantry to stop the crossing, and shift fire of their artillery. The Red Army infantry pay a terrible price.

But they have a saying in Russia: quantity has a quality all it's own. And the Red Army infantry has the quantities. It is the Italians who can not afford the casualties they take trying to stop the crossing. This day on the game table, the Italian forces will not replicate the historical success of Torino in the encirclements at Petrikovka.

Hope that inspires you even more in your painting.

The MP rules play very well on the table. They are relatively fast-play, so your game time is more dedicated to making tactical decisions than interpreting rules and throwing buckets of dice dozens of times.

In particular I find the MP rules to be the best I have played for gaming this level of combined arms on the tabletop. Infantry, artillery, guns, and tanks all play at about the same pace. No one arm slows gameplay beyond the others. That's a rare treat among rules for gaming with company-sized and larger formations.

The rules also keep the game pace going -- in that all players are involved all the time. There is no block of time where one side is measuring and moving 20 or 30 pieces, while the other is wandering off to find food or grow beards or conduct paleological digs or whatever. The emphasis on small unit actions (platoon-scale bounds within the turns) keeps everything moving and everyone playing, even when the game scales up to battalion-sized forces with multiple players on each side.

Best rules I've found in mumble-mumble years of playing.

(aka: Mk 1)

Captain Pete10 Apr 2021 4:35 p.m. PST

Thanks very much, Mk 1! Your tables, minis, and AARs look great and will (hopefully) provide inspiration for others to try out these rules (and maybe your well designed scenarios as well).

captaincold6910 Apr 2021 5:15 p.m. PST

I too own these rules, but have never played them. I cannot learn a game by just reading the rules. I don't know anyone in my area who has played.

There isn't any "how to" videos on the net.

I've been hoping/wondering that if anyone who has played would be willing to teach someone via an online source….Tabletop Simulator or if it's on Vassal.

Any takers? :)

Captain Pete12 Apr 2021 3:33 p.m. PST

Hi captaincold69

I may possibly do an intro game showing some of the features of the rules. I may do it as a series of still shots with narrative rather than as a continuous video. I honestly don't know how soon that will be.

captaincold6912 Apr 2021 9:07 p.m. PST

Consider me eagerly awaiting :)

I'm learning IABSM, but I think Mein Panzer would lend itself to a little larger game.

Mark 113 Apr 2021 4:23 p.m. PST

I'm learning IABSM, but I think Mein Panzer would lend itself to a little larger game.

I would agree.

I do not own IABSM, and I have not played IABSM. But I have had many discussions with IABSM players and feel I have a pretty good grasp of the game mechanisms.

I might characterize IABSM as being more focused on the human / command issues, while Mein Panzer is more focused on maneuver and firepower issues. You can probably use both rules to play the games I showed above, but with IABSM you will probably do better focusing in on Sgt. Bravisimo's stand at the bridge with one AT gun, two 45mm Brixia mortars, two Breda 8mm HMGs and an FAO connected to a 100mm howitzer battery. IABSM might give you a very rich gaming experience over the action in that 1/4th of the map.

MP on the other hand can give you not only that spot of intense action, but also how that became an important spot on the map to begin with. And then how the epicenter shifted, as Tenente Deysgoinroundme was confronted with an adversary that is not content to just keep pushing into a bottleneck controlled by Bravisimo's guns, and instead sent his few remaining armored cars to give fire support to infantry that was crossing terrain where the armored cars couldn't even follow.

I find, with MP, that I am more often reacting to unforeseen decisions and maneuvers by my adversary, than by the results of die roles or game mechanics. Yes, as with any game with dice there will be some randomness in results, but for the most part I can be confident that if I can amass more firepower than you I can suppress your units and start to wear you down and/or push you back. The question is how will you respond? Will you perceive your impending disadvantage soon enough to do something to change the dynamic of the battle?

This is part of why I like these rules so much. I have found that, in my after-game banter, it is almost always about "I should not have let you get into that position" or "You really surprised me when you moved off to the right", while for so many years the banter was "you got so lucky with that die-role" or "if that unit had just been able to activate I'd have had you". My battles, whether armor-heavy, infantry-heavy or more evenly balanced, all seem to turn on gamer decision-making on how to maneuver and where to focus firepower. And to make that work you need a bit of elbow room, so it seems to be a better ruleset for larger map sizes.

All just IMHO. Your tankage may vary.

(aka: Mk 1)

captaincold6913 Apr 2021 7:01 p.m. PST

I've read the rules a little and have seen lots of commentary on the MP rules. I REALLY want to get into them, but I don't know anyone locally that plays. So, it's hard to learn them.

I've tried learning rules via solo play, but it's nearly impossible for me to learn that way.

Captain Pete13 Apr 2021 7:31 p.m. PST

Where do you live, captaincold69? I live in the greater Phoenix area. I did not really have anyone that played the game but managed to recruit some new players and at one time had a pretty solid group that would play it.

I admit that when I first started out, there were a few things I did wrong or misinterpreted but eventually after a few readings of the rules, I pretty much got them.

My group has pretty much dissolved for various reasons but I plan to run some games later this year to get some new blood in there.

I will do a solo game at home soon and take a lot of photos with explanation of what is happening so maybe you and some others will be able to understand the basics. I know some people learn much better visually than by reading. Most if not all of my new players learned by actually playing and not reading the rules prior.

captaincold6913 Apr 2021 8:28 p.m. PST

Captain Pete…that would be greatly appreciated.

I live in the Seattle area. I used to have a group and we played Chain of Command but that group has disbanded and with covid it's been hard to find other ww2 gamers.

I mainly solo these days (like most of us I'd assume). I enjoy IABSM, but I want a little bigger game.

I use 15mm for IABSM and I'd think they'd work for MP as I have a 10x6 table, but…at some point I'm going to play some 6mm too.

Thanks again. Great tread and I can't wait to get a grasp on these rules.

Captain Pete16 Apr 2021 7:04 p.m. PST

Hi captaincold69! I will see what I can do. Maybe some type of short tutorials or something like that with some pictures for the visual effect.

captaincold6916 Apr 2021 7:09 p.m. PST

ANYTHING would be greatly appreciated!

captaincold6927 Apr 2021 4:40 p.m. PST

Looks like someone from the ODGW forums is wanting to reach out to someone to help assist with some sort of "how to play" tutorial. I'd help, but I don't know the rules.

ODGW Kenny04 May 2021 9:20 a.m. PST

Hello, Thanks for the kind word. We are engaged with folks on the forum and working toward developing "How to Play" tutorials.

If there are any specific questions, I would be happy to answer them on the forums.

Most appreciated and Happy gaming!

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.