Help support TMP


"More Rapid Fire! V2 Questions - Transports, etc." Topic


3 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the WWII Rules Message Board


Areas of Interest

World War Two on the Land

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Ruleset


Featured Showcase Article


Featured Profile Article


235 hits since 28 Jun 2020
©1994-2020 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

codiver28 Jun 2020 6:57 p.m. PST

In general the rules are pretty straight forward, but this area is pretty confusing to me. It seems quite obvious from the example OBs at the start of the rules that transports, trucks or even armored half-tracks with VMGs (e.g. Sdkfz 251/1) do not contribute to a battalion's initial morale total figures.

When troops dismount from a truck, or a towed gun unlimbers, what do you do with soft transports? Take them off, or leave them on the table (I've played games that do either). If you leave them on the table, presumably they can be shot at (rules 8.29-8.30, 8.51 or 8.83-8.84) and destroyed. If destroyed do they count against the battalions morale, and if so how many figures?

Are half-tracks different? The chrisleachs_clarifications1 file says "Truck or carrier-mounted infantry battalions are treated in exactly the same way." OK… For the Sdkfz 251/1 in the 2019-05-02-germanvg file, there is an * next to VMG which I think indicates "Can only fire this weapon when carrying an infantry base." That makes perfect sense. If all its infantry dismounts, if knocked out, does it count against the battalions morale? And if so how many figures does it count? 3 since it's an AFV? What about U.S. half-tracks that have an HMG (at least in the rulebook)? The infantry didn't typically dismount the .50cal and take it with them…

Finally (for now) how do you handle what I'll call an SFV (Soft Fighting Vehicle)? Examples include a U.S. Jeep (HMG) or a German FlaK vehicle like a Sdkfz 10/4 SP 20mm AA or a Sdkfz 7/1 SP quad 20mm AA halftrack. The examples of the U.S. Recon Troop in the rules indicate neither the unarmed Jeep nor the Jeep (HMG) contribute to the troop's initial morale total figures, but presumably a knocked out Jeep would be similar to a truck, above? What about a German battalion with a soft FlaK vehicle? How is it handled as far as initial morale, and if knocked out?

Thanks…

lkmjbc329 Jun 2020 9:33 a.m. PST

Nope, we don't count softskins or halftracks. To move or shoot, they must be manned. If you destroy them and the troops, then the troops count for morale.

For vehicles with heavier weapons, we count them as 3 for morale purposes…

Joe Collins

codiver29 Jun 2020 12:52 p.m. PST

Thanks for the response Joe. It wasn't what I expected. I thought the answer, at least for trucks, and certainly for half-tracks, was going to be "don't count for you, but do count against".

The rules for knocking out soft vehicles say things like (8.29 or 8.83) "If a soft-skin vehicle sustains two casualties 'worth' of damage from firing in one turn the vehicle is destroyed and the driver lost." To me that says they have a [an intrinsic] driver, so they could move without leaving infantry/gun crew figures in it. For that matter, rule 8.32 says "…AFVs have a nominal crew of three. If all three crew members of an open-topped AFV are lost it cannot take any further part in the game (and counts as destroyed for morale tests)." To me that says the half-tracks can move and shoot – an exception being those vehicles that have the note "Can only fire this weapon when carrying an infantry base" (i.e. like the Sdkfz 251/1, where the dismounted infantry takes the MG with them) can't shoot with just their crew.

When you say "For vehicles with heavier weapons, we count them as 3 for morale purposes…", I assume that means both for the initial total and against? That would make the most sense to me.

Dave

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.