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"D& D Orcs Will Now Be Good Guys" Topic

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pzivh43 Supporting Member of TMP27 Jun 2020 4:39 p.m. PST

Wizards of the Coast has announced that Orcs and Drows will be switched from evil to good in the newest version of Dungeons & Dragons:

"Troughout the 50-year history of D&D, some of the peoples in the game- orcs and drow being prime examples- have been characterized as monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real world ethnic groups have been and continue to be denigrated."

Social Justice is everywhere!

nnascati Supporting Member of TMP27 Jun 2020 5:13 p.m. PST

April Fools, right?

KeithRK27 Jun 2020 5:18 p.m. PST

That's overstating things bit. Here's the actual announcement by Wizards of the Coast.


Of course, it's every DM's own campaign and they can run Orcs and Drow however they see fit.

Wackmole927 Jun 2020 5:23 p.m. PST

Humans are evil and should be wiped from all fantasy universes.

TNE230027 Jun 2020 5:25 p.m. PST

WotC can do whatever they want with their revisionist orcs

Mine are proper orcs and always will be both Chaotic and Evil

Social Justice is everywhere!

so true
next I'll be told my Traveller dice are racist

Personal logo Sgt Slag Supporting Member of TMP27 Jun 2020 6:22 p.m. PST

The value of the un-edited original versions will skyrocket. Buy them before that happens… Cheers!

McWong7327 Jun 2020 6:26 p.m. PST

Slag, got a buying guide for what you think are the best buys for both?

Old Glory Sponsoring Member of TMP27 Jun 2020 6:37 p.m. PST

Dracula and vampires were never understood or listened to.
Actually good folks -- except for the little being dead, drinking blood and killing people thing?

Stryderg27 Jun 2020 6:51 p.m. PST

In a long forgotten age, the evil sorcerer, I mean, the greatly mis-understood sorcerer harnessed the powers of darkness, I mean, the powers of well-lit darkness to create a race of beings as mis-understood as he was. Their vile, brutish bodies, I mean their unique bodies that did not conform to oppressive social norms would spark fear and dread into the hearts of men, I mean they would spark fear and dread into the hearts of vile, racist, homophobic and misogynistic white men.

I think I'll stick with the original version, its less wordy.

USAFpilot27 Jun 2020 7:03 p.m. PST

OLM = orc lives matter

willthepiper27 Jun 2020 7:19 p.m. PST

Orcs as protagonists is a concept that's been around for decades. That silly Will Smith movie "Bright" is just a modern knockoff of Shadowrun. Shadowrun orcs from the '80s were basically a stand-in for visible minorities, and you can look even further back to half-orcs in the AD&D Player's Handbook from the 70s.

So if WotC are only jumping on the bandwagon now, they are only just catching up to a trend that's over 30 years old, maybe even older. Nothing to get riled up over at any rate.

Toaster27 Jun 2020 7:40 p.m. PST

I've been playing with my players preconceptions around the 'evil' races for years, it's a great way to twist the plot and force them to re-evaluate who's on the right side.


Zephyr127 Jun 2020 8:04 p.m. PST

So D&D will now be played as the poor dungeon inhabitants defending their lairs against violent invading treasure seekers?

Wasn't there a game like that out already?

Oh yes, it was called Dungeon Keeper… ;-)

Chimpy28 Jun 2020 12:29 a.m. PST

I thought that Orcs in D and D were orange or bright yellow skinned? ie Unlike any human race. And I thought that Drow were charcoal black unlike any human race. Admittedly my "knowledge" comes from A D and D First edition.

However I always thought that it was a failing of some fantasy fiction and games that any "race" was inherently evil. I think it makes a better story and game if there are a mixture of motivations among any population ie most average joes are a mixture of both good and evil depending on circumstances.

Personal logo Herkybird Supporting Member of TMP28 Jun 2020 1:39 a.m. PST

My Orcs will remain as cruel as at present, I follow Tolkein. These are corrupted Elves, tortured to insanity.
I imagine them as not especially evil in themselves..I go with Chimpy's evaluation.

In many ways, it resembles Star Wars, where figures fall to the 'Dark Side'.

Prince Rupert of the Rhine28 Jun 2020 3:31 a.m. PST

lol I bet Drizzt Do'Urden is going to be really confused now.

"Wait what? So all you guys are good now? So there is no need for me to be exiled from Menzoberranzan now? Screw that I liked being the only moody, edgy, good Dark elf around. Last thing I want is be the same as you lot! Right that's it I'm turning EVIL right now…Die goody Drow DIE!!

ZULUPAUL Supporting Member of TMP28 Jun 2020 4:10 a.m. PST

Orcs is Orcs, mine will stay brutish as always not like dem elves!

JMcCarroll28 Jun 2020 4:55 a.m. PST

Don't get me started on half Orcs!

Prince Rupert of the Rhine28 Jun 2020 5:19 a.m. PST

So errr… what happens to that hottie Lolth now all her followers have turned good?

Thresher0128 Jun 2020 5:19 a.m. PST

"Social Justice is everywhere!".

Too funny, AND more than a bit sad………

USAFpilot28 Jun 2020 6:49 a.m. PST

Good grief; this topic is absurd. Part of what makes up the genre of "fantasy" is archetype characters. Everyone knows that the knight in shining armor is the good guy, and the ugly cruel orc is the bad guy. They represent visual symbols of good and evil. Yes, in fantasy, there are absolutes of good and evil. There is no element of racism unless you yourself put it there.

Spare me the uppity psychobabble of the so called "woke".

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

Personal logo pavelft Supporting Member of TMP28 Jun 2020 7:03 a.m. PST

This is actually inaccurate, and not even new. They have simply published variant takes on Drow and Orcs as morally ambiguous races (kind of like Humans, and all the other playable races) wherein the entire race is not identified with an Evil alignment. These takes are specific to a couple settings books. The Ebberon book includes Drow that are morally ambiguous. Ebberon Drow have been this way since it was introduced in 3rd edition almost 20 years ago. The morally ambiguous Orcs are in the Wildemount setting book, which is a new one for 5e as it's the Critical Role setting.

If you instantly react negatively to this, you may want to check your reactionary attitude at the door. Don't get your knickers in a twist.

Coyotepunc and Hatshepsuut28 Jun 2020 7:22 a.m. PST

Driz'zt Do'urden, back in the late 80s, made drow possibly good at least once in a while. The Book Of Humanoids a few years later did the same for man-sized monsters. I'm not sure why this is suddenly news 30 years later except to capitalize on current events, which is a cheap shot from an otherwise reputable company.

Personal logo Sgt Slag Supporting Member of TMP28 Jun 2020 8:48 a.m. PST

I had a discussion with players, years ago, on the built-in racism in D&D games. It makes the game playable. But it's fantasy! Good and Evil are black and white, like ink on paper. Take that out of the game, and you would have 'utopia', which would be conflict-free. And zero fun to play.

This may prove worse than the Satanic Panic in the 80's… If they actually re-write everything, I suspect their sales will zero out, along with the product line. Sad. Other, non-PC companies will rise up and fill the vacuum, sucking in the profits… Cheers!

Baconfat28 Jun 2020 8:50 a.m. PST

They're adding another "I" to S D C I W C, for a new Intersectionality stat.

Characters will have 56 genders to choose from, no more racist gender binaries.

Parties will suffer penalties if they don't meet diversity quotas.

Barbarians can't wear fur.

rvandusen Supporting Member of TMP28 Jun 2020 9:56 a.m. PST

How about a campaign where the Orcs are valiantly protecting a dragon (an endangered species) from Elves and Human poachers?

SBminisguy28 Jun 2020 12:54 p.m. PST

No, Orcs Aren't Racist
Why cultural critics keep arguing about the wrong things.

…Essentially this question boils down to something of a Rorschach card: If you want to see racism in Tolkien's orcs, you will; if you don't, you won't.


Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP28 Jun 2020 2:36 p.m. PST

Great link. The article applies to a lot more than just orcs, too.

I'm all for fighting real injustice. Faux injustice, not so much.

Col Durnford28 Jun 2020 3:31 p.m. PST

My Orcs (and goblins, trolls, and skeletons for that matter will not change).

The black drow alway bothered me, so I painted them up with normal elf flesh on the old Empire of the Petal Throne figures with a somewhat more flamboyant paint job.

Personal logo Doctor X Supporting Member of TMP28 Jun 2020 4:08 p.m. PST

Parties will suffer penalties if they don't meet diversity quotas.

That applies to both race and class.

I am declaring the first Gelatinous Cube who identifies as a rogue.

Coyotepunc and Hatshepsuut28 Jun 2020 4:32 p.m. PST

I am going to add a bit more here.

The low level bad guys in my upcoming D&D campaign are halflings, taken with a dash of Dark Sun. They live in tunnels under the tree roots of old growth forests, they raid civilized settlements to steal children and weaker adults to bring back to their holes for food. Their necromancer queens then raise the leftovers as skeletons for servants and backup warriors for the raids.

I've made my hobbits exceptionally evil. The goblins look nice by comparison. Just because the rules say something is a certain way, doesn't mean you need to play it that way.

Stryderg28 Jun 2020 6:45 p.m. PST

I seem to recall someone speaking of evil hobbitses that wants my precious. Glad to hear he wasn't alone in his beliefs.

USAFpilot28 Jun 2020 7:16 p.m. PST

In related news for my upcoming campaign, I'm taking a clan of goblins who are tired of living in deep dirty places and instead want to move into nice comfortable homey holes. They will have nice furniture and enjoy going on goblin walks across rolling meadows while smoking their favorite pipe weed and sharing poetry with each other.

Dn Jackson Supporting Member of TMP29 Jun 2020 12:09 p.m. PST

From the official announcement; "Later this year, we will release a product (not yet announced) that offers a way for a player to customize their character's origin, including the option to change the ability score increases that come from being an elf, a dwarf, or one of D&D's many other playable folk. This option emphasizes that each person in the game is an individual with capabilities all their own."

So everyone, no matter the race, will be the same. A game where everything is beige. I want to run the first dwarf that is 6'8" tall!

Basically they're groveling to show how woke they've become.

Pontifex29 Jun 2020 4:56 p.m. PST

Wizards of the Coast just discovered World of Warcraft! Congrats to them!

D6Craig10 Jul 2020 1:15 a.m. PST

I suppose that the next step will be making them green in political terms and not just in skin tones! No longer will they chop down the forests, they will use smokeless fuels and eat only vegetarian foods (or maybe only vegetarians?).
D&D, and all other RPG's, are only frameworks for a good DM to hang their world upon. All races can be portrayed good, bad or plain indifferent if the DM wants. Let it be a story that relies upon the participants imagination and leave the politics out.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian11 Jul 2020 3:59 p.m. PST

Chronopia did it first! grin

Albus Malum01 Aug 2020 6:20 p.m. PST

So…. What colored skin is going to be allowed. I guess pink? No… that would be offensive also..

Colors disallowed from the English language and DnD: Black, White, Yellow, Red, Brown, any mixed color.

I guess everybodies characters and the monsters are all going to be green or Blue? wait, aren't Martians supposed to be Green, I guess GREEN is out also. So BLue it is.. Blue people fighting Blue monsters… So…Now what am I supposed to do with all that paint I bought for painting miniatures.

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