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"Give me an excuse to buy European mercenaries" Topic

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HappyHiker27 Jun 2020 4:40 a.m. PST

Nearing the end of a hundred year war project, casualty markers still to go. I've used perry wotr retinue archers for English longbow mixed with agincourt archers so we have wotr armies and hyw armies with a bit of an overlap. So I could just stop and give the wife the conservatory back, but I'd really fancy painting some Perry mercenary pikes. So Can someone give me an excuse to use pikes in hyw or wotr ? My wotr armies are painted for bosworth, so Tudor could have French pikes, would they be in his white and green livery ? Really I'd like a livery that's fairly accurate for both periods, I know the armour is a bit wrong for hyw. Don't fancy the white and blue on the box cover for burgundy ( maybe for the hand gunners) Could paint them Swiss or Flemish, but is there any suggestion these would be used during wotr or hyw ?

I could just paint them cos I want to, but a vague historical excuse (and livery) would be nice.

Any suggestions ?

Prince Rupert of the Rhine27 Jun 2020 4:50 a.m. PST

Well if you have painted your armies for Bosworth is it pushing it to much to use them three years later for the Battle of Stoke Field? Plenty of German Mercs for the Perry plastics to masquerade as and you could then get some lovely Irish from Perry miniatures to :)

GurKhan27 Jun 2020 5:20 a.m. PST

I did spend some time looking into the French at Bosworth, some of whom may have been pikemen, for a recent Slingshot article. I couldn't find any reference to their being issued livery jackets or any form of uniform clothing at all. I would suspect them of wearing uncovered brigandines, though it is impossible to be certain.

repaint27 Jun 2020 5:24 a.m. PST

too much cash?

MajorB27 Jun 2020 5:47 a.m. PST

I got the Perry Mercenaries box for the French at Bosworth and the Burgundian handgunners at St Albans II.

HappyHiker27 Jun 2020 5:52 a.m. PST

@MajorB what livery, if any did you paint them ?
(I painted the army before I researched it properly, Stanley is white and blue at the moment so I want to avoid Burgundian white and blue pike. Even if I repurpose them for Henry vi)

cavcrazy27 Jun 2020 6:02 a.m. PST

Because you had heard once in a long ago conversation that they were used in a handful of somewhat vauge battles and if you were hoping to fight such battles, you want to make sure you have everything you need 😁

MajorB27 Jun 2020 6:34 a.m. PST

what livery, if any did you paint them ?

Freench in red, Burgundians in blue and white (with a small red diagonal cross)

HappyHiker27 Jun 2020 8:34 a.m. PST

ok thanks. That seems the general way most people paint them. Any examples of Pikes in HYW ? I've searched but it all seems a bit vague( Which I'm beginning to realise is common)

GurKhan27 Jun 2020 9:35 a.m. PST

There was involvement by Flemish allied armies, which presumably included communal pikemen, from the start (the confrontation at La Flamengerie in 1339, the siege of Tournai 1340) but I don't think there is really a role for mercenary pikemen.

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP27 Jun 2020 10:57 a.m. PST

If you don't by the mercenary box. I will steal your car and give it to your school bully. That should be a good enough excuse.

Personal logo Endless Grubs Supporting Member of TMP27 Jun 2020 11:01 a.m. PST

You will look older, more sophisticated.

thosmoss27 Jun 2020 11:22 a.m. PST

Postage from EU goes up in July.

mad monkey 127 Jun 2020 1:53 p.m. PST

Because what if battles can be fun?

Griefbringer28 Jun 2020 12:03 a.m. PST

Regarding action during HYW, I faintly recall Flemish militias showing up for the siege of Calais in the 1430's, would need to check for details.

As for the Swiss, there is the famous encounter at St. Jakob-en-Birs in 1444.

HappyHiker28 Jun 2020 1:54 a.m. PST

Ok thanks, good enough for me. It's the cheapest way to get handgunners anyway. So burgundy handgunners, non livery pike. For battle of bosworth, stoke, and what if senarios. I'll look sophisticated and gun freak won't nick my car. 😀

uglyfatbloke28 Jun 2020 3:10 a.m. PST

Depends on what we call a pike and what we all a long spear; I expect you can have Scottish troops for WotR and certainly for HYW. Would a well-equipped spear/pike soldier in 1420 look that much different from one one in 1460?

Griefbringer28 Jun 2020 3:19 a.m. PST

I checked the details for the siege of Calais by the duke of Burgundy: it took place in July 1436 and involved at least significant amount of artillery and Flemish militia contingents at least from Ghent and Bruges. There seem to have been no major field battles involved, though towards the end the English made a couple of sallies against Flemish besiegers, and after the siege was over there were some retalitory English raids into Flanders. So plenty of scope for skirmish actions between English and Flemish forces.

St. Jakob-en-Birs in 1444 on the other hands is a single field battle involving a contingent of 1500 Swiss launching an attack against a larger French mercenary force. The outnumbered Swiss managed to hold out for a number of hours, though were eventually cut down to the last man.

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