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"Rally Against Bigotry" Topic


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Personal logo Editor Gwen The Editor of TMP26 Jun 2020 6:54 p.m. PST

As you know, my job at TMP is to work with the advertisers. Earlier today, I sent them this email, which I also want to share with all of you:

I need to talk to you about an important situation in our hobby.

Earlier this week, fans of a company named TooFatLardies trashed our website to advertise some new ruleset. When we fought back, they called us bullies. Then the company started a campaign to drive us out of businenss. Many of you have received the emails.

I have been the target of this online mob. They have mocked my sexual orientation. They attack my English skills. I say that I am lucky and blessed because I can speak another language like English. They claim I have a fake job. They say I am not even a real person.

You know who I am. I work with you every day here at TMP. Please don't let bigots ruin our hobby. Tell TooFatLardies to stop the anti-gay attacks from their fans, especially the one posted on their own Facebook feed until Facebook removed it for violating their standards. Do not let them steal my job away from me and my family.

Thank you.

I am so sad that someone is talking bad against me, and that someone who hates TMP felt they needed to attack me personally and below the belt. That really makes me feel so sad.

I love my job very much. It is so evil what these people are trying to do to TMP, to destroy our company.

JSchutt26 Jun 2020 7:18 p.m. PST

Attaching the actions of individuals to someone else entirely… or some other enterprise… is the definition of bigotry. The internet is full of crappy people.

Personal logo Editor Gwen The Editor of TMP26 Jun 2020 7:19 p.m. PST

I know some people always want proof, so here is a screenshot:

Hate Speech Removed

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian26 Jun 2020 7:20 p.m. PST

That was on TFL's Facebook feed, JSchutt. They did nothing about it. So Facebook took it down.

I would think, if I had fans grin and they were making homophobic and anti-religious attacks in my name, I would say something about it.

Personal logo Editor Gwen The Editor of TMP26 Jun 2020 7:29 p.m. PST

There is a saying, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Col Durnford Supporting Member of TMP26 Jun 2020 8:11 p.m. PST

We get pushed and pushed. Sooner or later we will push back.

Stay strong and remember you have no control on what other people say, only how you react to it.

Personal logo The Virtual Armchair General Sponsoring Member of TMP26 Jun 2020 8:21 p.m. PST

In full accord with you, Gwen, and Bill.

The elephant in the room in this hobby (certainly in other venues, too) is that it attracts and holds a great many people who seem forever locked at age 13 for social skills and their capacity for separating their hobby from their lives.

No amount of discontent--justified or not--with Bill as Our Dear Leader of TMP can excuse the sort of attack on "non-combattants" as Gwen or anyone else.

If TMP means that much to anyone, then please drop out and find a life elsewhere.

TVAG

Richard Brooks Sponsoring Member of TMP26 Jun 2020 8:31 p.m. PST

Recreational Conflict stands with TVAG.

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP26 Jun 2020 8:42 p.m. PST

Well said

dddd9926 Jun 2020 8:49 p.m. PST

Gwen, I am saddened to hear of your experience with bigotry. I hopefully agree with everyone here that bigotry in any form is to be disavowed.

If TMP is supportive of that I would be glad since that aligns with my thinking. You do not deserve mistreatment in that area and this organization should reconsider their words; an apology would be better too.

In USA, these identities are now referred to as an ever growing acronym as LGBTQIA+ (in case you are not familiar with the US terminology):
L – Lesbian. Lesbian is a term used to refer to homosexual females.
G – Gay. Gay is a term used to refer to homosexuality, a homosexual person, or a homosexual male.
B – Bisexual. Bisexual is when a person is attracted to two sexes/genders.
T – Trans. Trans is an umbrella term for transgender and transsexual people.
Q – Queer/Questioning. Queer is an umbrella term for all of those who are not heterosexual and/or cisgender. Questioning is when a person isn't 100% sure of their sexual orientation and/or gender, and are trying to find their true identity.
I – Intersex. Intersex is when a person has an indeterminate mix of primary and secondary sex characteristics.
A – Asexuality. Asexuality is when a person experiences no (or little, if referring to demisexuality or grey-asexuality) sexual attraction to people.
+ – The "+" symbol simply stands for all of the other sexualities, sexes, and genders that aren't included in these few letters.

I am glad TMP is very supportive of this. Like I said bigotry in any form should be rallied against. I think in the end we just need to chill; better days are ahead.

Best wishes to TMP. I think this will pass; stay true to yourselves.

Personal logo Andrew Walters Supporting Member of TMP26 Jun 2020 9:46 p.m. PST

This is pretty appalling.

I want to be sure that this is the position of TFL. I am cautious about inferring these horrible, horrible things about them based on inaction. TFL needs to disavow these things. There are explanations for their inaction other than agreement. Perhaps whoever is in charge of that feed was off sick, etc. If they stand by these awful statements that's going to change how I spend my money.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian26 Jun 2020 9:57 p.m. PST

I think there are two issues involved here.

First, it's who you associate with. TFL welcomed in all of the TMP outcasts – there are some pretty unsavory characters among that crowd!

Second, they're obviously not policing their own forum. It has become toxic. Thaddeus the Cyberstalker just posted an attack on Editor Gwen for something she said to him on another website that has nothing to do with the hobby industry, and accuses her of not existing!

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian26 Jun 2020 10:20 p.m. PST

And now someone is defending homophobia on TFL's Facebook feed:

Homophobia

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian26 Jun 2020 10:51 p.m. PST

And Gwen and Dianna do not exist.

Invisible

At this point, pray tell me, what is the difference between TFL and Frothers?

Glengarry526 Jun 2020 11:51 p.m. PST

Just wait until the Woke discover wargaming. "What, you play with miniature figures of NAZIs?" "Is that a Confederate flag I see?" We're all done for.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian26 Jun 2020 11:52 p.m. PST

It is disgusting how TFL lets people on their forum abuse my staffers and their friends.

Innuendos

More innuendos about Editor Gwen. On TFL's forum. I am so angry.

Mr Elmo27 Jun 2020 6:00 a.m. PST

I always thought their rules were stupid.

As for TMP vs TFL, I'll keep assuming both sides are wrong until proven otherwise; just like Carol Baskin and Joe Exotic.

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP27 Jun 2020 7:22 a.m. PST

You can lodge a complaint with the company that hosts their site. You can lodge complaints with whatever agency oversees the internet there. You can lodge complaints with LGBT organizations in the UK if you'd like as well. But arguing back and forth accomplishes nothing. You want it to stop complain to the right people. But make damn sure it isnt a Bleeped text member or a trouble maker speaking on their behalf. Be absolutely sure the entity you complain about is indeed the one causing the problems. Because quite often chickenBleeped texts hide behind umbrellas that the person they are 'representing' didn't lend them.

Legion 427 Jun 2020 8:58 a.m. PST

Just tragic what net has devolved to.

Really on a site about playing with toy soldiers, it really shouldn't matter who, what, etc., anybody on the other end of the line is.

You generally can't see them or what they do off line, etc. Should really NOT be a point of contention. They could be a "One-eye, flying purple people eater". Who cares ?

If you like to play with the same toys I do or even if you don't … adults don't care.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian27 Jun 2020 9:06 a.m. PST

Be absolutely sure the entity you complain about is indeed the one causing the problems.

These are posts from the TFL forum, Dadster. We pleaded with TMP to remove them. Their fans mocked us, and TFL ignored us.

Legion 427 Jun 2020 9:09 a.m. PST

Bill I only go to certain 6mm Sci-fi pages on FB. It is the Wild West/Mad Max Thunder Dome out there. Unregulated and biased comes to mind. Don't get sucked in.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian27 Jun 2020 9:12 a.m. PST

Some progress. Too Fat Lardies has asked their fans to stop the homophobic (and anti-Mormon) attacks:

TFL to fans

Unfortunately, there has been no apology, the homophobic posts are still on the TFL Facebook feed including mentioning Editor Gwen by name, homophobic posters such as Thaddeus Blanchette are still participating on the TFL Facebook feed.

Still shameful. There needs to be a public apology.

Legion 427 Jun 2020 9:46 a.m. PST

Sadly you probably won't get it especially from the likes of TB. [Don't even like to mention his/it's name and the site he used to inhabit. evil grin]

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian27 Jun 2020 9:56 a.m. PST

At the same time, TFL seems to the doubing down. This is TFL's announcement from their FB feed. I couldn't get all of it in one screenshot, but it starts with quoting Editor Gwen's letter, which is already posted in this topic above:

TFL Doubles Down

"Vile and offensive"

Nice stand against homophobia there, TFL!

"verbal attacks posted by the owner of TMP"

Show me even one post where I attacked TFL, other than to demand a stop to the hate speech. ("Verbal" is laughable.)

"compare the track records of the two organisations"

That's easy. Which organization is trying to 'cancel' the other through a boycott? Which organization has to ask their fans to stop making homophobic attacks? Which organization's FB page did Facebook slap with a 'Hate Speech' violation? Which organization's FB feed still harbors homophobic, personal attacks on TMP staffers, mocking their job skills, claiming they don't even exist?

Shame, TFL. Shame.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian27 Jun 2020 12:20 p.m. PST

Earlier, I posted a screenshot of a comment on TFL fan Jason Temple on the official Too Fat Lardies Facebook feed who basically told someone who complained about homophobic posts there to 'shut up'.

Jason has emailed me now. He asked me not to quote him, so I will paraphrase from our exchange of messages:

* he refers to the young lady as a "cheerleader" for sticking up against homophobia

* he accuses TMP of rallying gay people to fight against homophobia on the TFL forum

* he calls me some profanity

* he says that I'm a bully (apparently because I posted what he said earlier)

* he says that my views are "sick" (seems to be referring to gay people again)

* he says he's going to write to all the advertisers

This is the kind of person that Too Fat Lardies tolerates, and allows to post, on their official forum.

Legion 427 Jun 2020 1:03 p.m. PST

Geez ! Craziness !

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian27 Jun 2020 1:19 p.m. PST

OK, I'm not sure if this is a troll or a real question, but I've been asked this means TMP "promotes" the gay agenda.

No, this means we fight against hate and bigotry. God loves all of His children.

Bad Painter27 Jun 2020 3:33 p.m. PST

Does that mean reviews of TFL rules and games will no longer be posted on TMP?

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian27 Jun 2020 4:51 p.m. PST

You mean, does TFL's homophobic, toxic forum mean we won't allow reviews or game reports on their products any more?

(sigh)

Reviews and game reports are still allowed. The specific exception to that at the moment is the new product from TFL. We're going Egyptian on that. Not a word.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian27 Jun 2020 5:02 p.m. PST

Did Too Fat Lardies delete all the posts from gay people asking him to clean up his forum?

Wow.

I should have got more screenshots!

And the people who are doing the 'laugh' (instead of Like) to Editor Gwen's story on FB? Dave Talley. Ron Woodrum. Febrizio Ferrara (Warcolours Painting Service). Mark Evans. Roll of shame.

Editor Ellah27 Jun 2020 7:40 p.m. PST

I always love and support all the editors here even though i dont work here anymore, i actually posted on the Too Fat Lardies forum but they ignore my complaint and erased my message.

Editor Ellah27 Jun 2020 7:57 p.m. PST

And instead of answering my question, the Too Fat Lardies man made a creepy comment about my hands.

JSchutt28 Jun 2020 5:07 a.m. PST

Selective outrage is not a virtue. If the goal is "cancel culture" you are moving in the right direction. If the goal is to change people's minds through argument you are not. I thought TMP sought to distance itself from political and moral theater….. If one were to subscribe to the theory that hate speech is violence… call the police If you live in a country where free speech does not prevail… before they too are canceled. Unfortunately freedom of thought comes at a price we sometimes find distasteful.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian28 Jun 2020 7:41 a.m. PST

You seem to be saying that attacks on our staff, particularly the ones made from another company's forum, should be ignored.

I think people need to speak up against hate.

Foulksy28 Jun 2020 12:09 p.m. PST

I saw the post in question patronising, maybe even nasty and ignorant but 'hate speech' seems a little extreme.

And bear in mind this was one comment from one poster from the two and a half thousand odd people on the TFL page… you cannot tar all of them or the company with the same brush.

JSchutt28 Jun 2020 1:01 p.m. PST

An important life-lesson is to understand that idle blather on the internet can only hurt you if you let it. It up to you. I could go outrage-harvesting all day if I wanted to and put out a call so "white knights" could join my gang. Should one of these cowards actually threaten to "do" something just let me know and I'll join your parade. Till then best to apply the "sticks and stones" adage from back when our parents didn't have a safe space for us to retreat into. The notion that silence implies one is complicit is ridiculous. In this day and age of countless micro-aggressions we just don't have the time nor energy to respond to everyone's grievances.

Foulksy28 Jun 2020 1:05 p.m. PST

+1 JSchutt

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian28 Jun 2020 7:26 p.m. PST

but 'hate speech' seems a little extreme.

We're not the Facebook police. It was Facebook that said it was HATE SPEECH. Go argue with them if you disagree. I won't try to speculate why they made the judgment they did, but I am glad they took it down.

(Foulksy's account is locked because he posted an annoying post, then went on TFL's forum to boast about how he'd left TMP. Didn't he just get here? Did he join just to make a dramatic exit?)

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian28 Jun 2020 7:32 p.m. PST

Should one of these cowards actually threaten to "do" something just let me know and I'll join your parade.

Ridiculing someone publicly over their gender (or religion) is behavior we should all stand up against, JSchutt.

The notion that silence implies one is complicit is ridiculous.

If you are participating on a forum, and you see someone express hate speech, don't you have a moral obligation to speak up? It was so sad to see those people ignore what was going on right around them. When a few people did complain, they were ignored and their comments deleted.

YouTube link

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian28 Jun 2020 9:06 p.m. PST

…i actually posted on the Too Fat Lardies forum but they ignore my complaint and erased my message.

Ellah, they missed one! grin

Ellah

Anyone found this vitriol around here anywhere? LOL

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.