Editor in Chief Bill | 25 Jun 2020 4:12 p.m. PST |
While the debate about renaming military bases named for Confederates rages throughout the land, the West Wing, the Pentagon, and in the halls of Congress, I want to bring the discussion closer to the waterfront. Since the military and defense leaders seem to be amenable to hearing what the "dark-blue" and "dark-green" soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines have to say, and since most of them are not in a position to speak frankly, I thought I would make an attempt. This will be an uncomfortable conversation—one I only committed to writing on after a good deal of research—and I ask readers to conduct their own research before weighing in or dismissing the idea out of hand… link I never understood the argument for naming a warship after Stennis, and now I fully support change. |
pzivh43 | 25 Jun 2020 4:48 p.m. PST |
Maybe makes the case for not naming ships after anyone until about a hundred years after their passing. |
arealdeadone | 25 Jun 2020 5:05 p.m. PST |
It should be renamed USS Woketown, stripped of weapons and fighter aircraft and used as a police free homeless shelter and social welfare dispensary as well as a special privilege checking facility. |
Wackmole9 | 25 Jun 2020 6:01 p.m. PST |
Stop naming ships for presidents and uses the famous carriers of ww2 names. |
Max Schnell | 25 Jun 2020 6:22 p.m. PST |
Was a crew member of the USS Iowa, Mississippi and South Carolina. Revert back to older way of naming ships. |
Skarper | 25 Jun 2020 6:35 p.m. PST |
I've always had a problem with the name of Ronald Reagan on a warship. Any president for that matter. Battles, states and cities etc is the way to go. Or traditional names like Enterprise. It's high time the USN removed the worst cases and stopped making trouble for themselves by putting names of people on ships. I also disagree with the RN naming their carriers after Royals. Even long dead ones. There are plenty of names which can be recycled. |
Dan Cyr | 25 Jun 2020 7:09 p.m. PST |
They name them after politicians just to suck up to them for budget purposes. Doubt anything will change. Stennis was a long time white supremacist and racist. Why not name it after him (sarcasm mode off). |
arealdeadone | 25 Jun 2020 8:07 p.m. PST |
I also disagree with the RN naming their carriers after Royals. Even long dead ones. There are plenty of names which can be recycled. But that's an age old tradition. Why change it? Is the monarchy that on the nose these days?!? And if it's because they might be "racist" then naming ships after battles as you recommend is just as bad just because most of those battles were part of greater colonial or empire building wars. Pretty much everything will be offensive to someone. --- It could be worse. The Australian military bureaucracy is working hard at stamping out "Anglo Saxon warrior spirit" (you know the stuff that made Aussie diggers such good soldiers in the first place). In essence there are serious attempts to make the Aussie military totally PC – in some instances only women are recruited and they get the best choice of postings and can even chose to be posted with friends. They also fund cosmetic surgery for female soldiers such as breast enlargements. Violent unit insignia or artwork such as skulls has been made illegal. Training is being neutered and made more "caring" and "understanding". Soldiers are being pursued in legal courts by military lawyers for such things as utilising grenades in close quarters fighting where these things caused civilian casualties. Soldiers are even told to display that they are an LGBTIQ* ally by displaying a rainbow flag on the national ADF staff directory. link link PDF link link link One of my mate's brothers who was a career NCO left cause he was sick of the encroaching political correctness on all aspects of military service.
The future Australian digger is most likely a woke feminist whose main priority is to ensure political correctness is adhered to by whatever effeminate men are still willing to serve.
Defending the country from hostile threats will be second to defending the values of political correctness. "I can't shoot at those Chinese landing craft landing on our coast because the military I work for is part of a patriarchal cisgendered racist society who through genocide usurped this land from its rightful indigenous inhabitants, oppressed women and minorities and didn't have appropriate toilets for transgender people." |
Thresher01 | 25 Jun 2020 9:10 p.m. PST |
Very sorry to hear that about Oz. There are a lot of loony policies ALL over the globe. I suspect it is a sign of the "Pre-Post-Apocalyptic Era" (Copyright 2020) that we are currently living in. |
Heedless Horseman | 25 Jun 2020 9:24 p.m. PST |
I am REALY TIRED of this whole 'Racism' thing…and now it has been exported to the U.K…Nelson and Churchill were 'racist'? So What? EVERYONE has 'heroes' whatever their attitudes and culture, at that time. Why cannot people just recognise that, although 'values' change…'History' does not…except in interpretation. As a Brit, I have long recognised the enormous contribution, heroism and losses incurred by 'Imperial' troops and sailors. Why should this be 'wrong' because they fought in an 'Imperialist' cause? Same argument applies to the U.S Civil War…THEY fought for their States, because that is where they were from…and, they got payed and fed…NOT a small argument…even for the rich! As for naming ships: from THIS side of the Pond, U.S 'Victories' are YOURS… so celebrate them, by all means. You have a much bigger Navy than WE do, so you will run out, LOL! But, be cautious…the Heroic sacrifice if those who served on great ships will NOT be recognised…as someone…'Will' find a way to say that South Carolina, Mississippi or WASP has something that THEY can disagree with. Brits will ALWAYS want to serve on an 'Ark Royal', or 'Invincible'…even if others got sunk! As things are going, (UK.)it will be "Boat 19…your time is up!" The U.S.A…ALL of the U.S.A…has a 'history' , AND great pride for ALL of their their predecessors part in it… WHATEVER that part was. MOVE ON! What was THEN, IS NOT NOW…so let the old things lie in peace and stop wrecking the future! |
arealdeadone | 25 Jun 2020 9:55 p.m. PST |
Totally agree Heedless Horseman. I suspect most of these people arguing for renaming and toppling of monuments(and probably book burnings in the future the way we are going) don't even understand the things they are fighting against. I was just debating with a couple of these woke idiots on a heavy metal website. One is a supposed white teacher in the US and he argued it's Ok to take down statues of Ulysses S. Grant or Theodore Roosevelt or Captain James Cook "cause racism" but bizarrely did not support removing monuments to Thomas Jefferson who owned hundreds of slaves. I doubt he knew who Grant or Roosevelt were before I posted the article about their statues removed. Bizarrely he calls Confederates "traitors," something which was avoided in America to unify a broken country. And him a man who opposes the US military and calls the US system of government "terrorism." Basically these people are no different to the Communists trashing history so they could rewrite it to meet their version of reality.
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Dn Jackson | 25 Jun 2020 11:04 p.m. PST |
I'd like to know what the argument was in favor of naming the Stennis after him. Did whatever good he did over ride the bad? |
Striker | 25 Jun 2020 11:25 p.m. PST |
I'm with you wackmole. I figured the system is what it is when they named a carrier for Truman. |
Editor in Chief Bill | 25 Jun 2020 11:44 p.m. PST |
Did whatever good he did over ride the bad? Different times? I think it was seen as a reward to Mississippi, where he is from, and I'd guess it had something to do with getting the votes in Congress? But no sailor or airman feels inspired by the example of Stennis, do they? |
pzivh43 | 26 Jun 2020 6:38 a.m. PST |
"What was THEN, IS NOT NOW" Heedless Horseman. I like that---perfect way to answer the leftists who can do naught but scream and rage. |
Wackmole9 | 26 Jun 2020 7:04 a.m. PST |
Hi Iam Not a defender of Stennis, but I believe it was named for him due to is unending support for the navy in congress
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Thresher01 | 26 Jun 2020 9:28 a.m. PST |
When will the Robert Byrd freeway, statue(s), AND numerous buildings (apparently there are over 50) all be renamed, or destroyed? |
USAFpilot | 27 Jun 2020 2:16 p.m. PST |
The prestigious Yale University is named for the slave trader Elihu Yale. It really shows the hypocrisy of the "woke" crowd in which statues and names they attack and which they don't. Their movement has very little to do with the issue of racism and everything to do with politics. Sure, America has its problems, but on the whole, we are one of the least racist countries in the world. |
Ed Mohrmann | 28 Jun 2020 9:44 a.m. PST |
I do recall from my brief time at Yale that Elihu Yale was involved in the slave trade, although at that time any information about him and the slave trade was hard to come by (1961). The inscription on his tomb says, in part: '…much good, some ill…'. No idea how much of either. As far as naming warships, if the DoN wants to name them after persons, USS Dorie Miller is a good one - perhaps enlisted personnel (USN/USMC/USCG) MoH awardees would be appropriate. Absent those, the historic names from the RevWar and 1812 would serve well. |
Skarper | 28 Jun 2020 2:12 p.m. PST |
How about some British Generals of 1776 and 1812??? |
Ed Mohrmann | 29 Jun 2020 7:04 a.m. PST |
Skarper, thinking more along the lines of the ships – some of those names still in use, such as USS Constitution (still in commission, I think). President was a frigate of the period and Congress; Intrepid was associated with Decatur against the Barbary states. Philadelphia was a frigate captured at Tripoli and then destroyed by Decatur in what Nelson called 'The most bold and daring act of the age'. The name Philadelphia was first used for one of the gunboats built by Benedict Arnold for service on Lake Champlain during the AWI. She was sunk during the action but was raised (1935 ??) and is currently on display in the Smithsonian. |
von Schwartz | 30 Jun 2020 6:44 p.m. PST |
I think Lt. Col. Allen West recently said it best, "History is not there for you to like or dislike." He went on to say that "It is there for you to LEARN from." (my emphasis) Then of course there is the famous quote from George Santayana, "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." |
Old Contemptible | 11 Nov 2021 4:04 p.m. PST |
"USS John C. Stennis (CVN-74), named for a former United States Senator, President pro tempore of the Senate, Chairman of the United States Senate Committee on Armed Services, and a strong supporter of the navy, who became known as "Father of America's modern navy". He was Chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee January 3, 1969 – January 3, 1981. |
Nine pound round | 11 Nov 2021 4:32 p.m. PST |
His claim to have a warship named in his honor is certainly no worse than Gabrielle Giffords, who was distinguished only by having her brains blown out, or by Harvey Milk, whose biggest naval distinction seems to be the manner in which he was ejected from the service. Stennis's contribution was like Vinson's: he made sure military programs were funded adequately. |
Nine pound round | 11 Nov 2021 4:42 p.m. PST |
One other thought: it would not have been possible for an orthodox liberal (and a liberal in 1948 would qualify as a paleo conservative by today's terms) to have won election in Mississippi between 1948 and, say, the mid-1980s. You need only look at Stennis's counterpart for much of that time, James O. Eastland. Anyone wanting to criticize Stennis should really consider just what might have been elected had he not held office. It would almost certainly have been worse. |
Legion 4 | 12 Nov 2021 3:13 p.m. PST |
I'd think Naval vessels should be named after war heroes & leaders, warrior terms, etc. They are vessels of war … It should not even be woke, CRT, political, etc., considerations. |
Tortorella | 12 Nov 2021 3:45 p.m. PST |
Agree strongly on this, Legion. Naming standards for classes should include combat medal winners, innovators for design, tactics. |
Legion 4 | 13 Nov 2021 7:32 a.m. PST |
Yep ! Warriors, leaders, etc. Again … These are warships … ships of war … You want to use PC, SJW, Woke, etc., names … put them on civilian cruise ships … How about some British Generals of 1776 and 1812??? IIRC … they all came in 2d place in those wars.🥈 Look at a current map … the USA is still here ! 🤩😆 Well at least for now … 🤔 |
Nine pound round | 13 Nov 2021 2:54 p.m. PST |
We've always named ships after politicians – revenue/Coast Guard cutters after treasury secretaries, and we dug deeply into the nation's naval history to name destroyers, coming up with some politicians and plenty of retired officers of greater or lesser degrees of distinction. The difference is that they were all presumed to have done something in furtherance of the nation's defense. Some were secretaries, some commanders, some sailors who committed one or more heroic acts: the point was that they did something to further the defense of the nation on land or sea. The reality is that our national attitudes have changed. It was once fashionable to be a hero; it is now fashionable to be a victim. The claims of the people I mentioned above – and I could add more to the list- are not based in a concrete contribution to the nation's defense. They're based on the assertion that they are in some ways victims- of policies, of the dominant national culture, of whatever. I don't find "Carl Vinson" or "John Stennis" inspiring in the same way that, say "Farragut" or "Cushing" might be inspiring. But they are based in deed, rather than a claim of victim hood, and if we can't name ships after heroes anymore, I would personally prefer the name to be a reminder of people who were honestly patriotic, rather than names that were chosen with the apparent purpose of reminding us of what some people believe is wrong with our country. |
Legion 4 | 14 Nov 2021 10:31 a.m. PST |
Most don't know what our Naval vessels are named or why … |
Tortorella | 14 Nov 2021 1:39 p.m. PST |
What ship is named after someone claiming victimhood? I would prefer not to use any president names unless they were active duty at some point or dramaticly altered the service – not with money but with leadership – TR was a worthy choice. There are plenty of guys from Pearl, Coral Sea, Solomons, Midway to name whole a fleet after. Then there are guys like John McCain, who was treated so poorly by the former guy, but was an inspiration to so many and an icon of the era. Names from every era who showed courage in the face of the enemy, or in the face of backward thinking and bureaucracy. `` |
Nine pound round | 14 Nov 2021 2:46 p.m. PST |
USS Gabrielle Giffords USNS Harvey Milk |