"Statue of George Washington Toppled and Draped In..." Topic

MiniPigs said:"You might be conflating Liberals with Leftists and American Leftists with extremists".

No, they're doing that with their party platform(s).

Liberals have a party platform? What do you think a liberal is and who do you think they are?

MiniPigs said:"Liberals love the 1st Amendment and seek to have it rigorously enforced".

No, they don't. They're only for it for their side, and attempt and frequently succeed in shutting down free speech, and/or in stifling it at every opportunity, e.g. on college campuses where only leftist speakers can talk, and advocate for their positions without rioting, threats, and people shouting or otherwise preventing opposing viewpoints from being heard. College administrations and professors are doing this too.

OK, there's actually a lot here. However, time constraints limit me to saying that, even in cases where liberals seek to halt speech, the courts dont allow it. You see, liberals dont enforce the Constitution any more than conservatives do.

Further, it is healthy for people to challenge the Constitution; that is exactly how we get a better understanding of its parameters.

I might add that conservatives try to shut down a fair amount of speech as well; as do many other groups/persons. Thus, the issue isnt whether people are trying to preserve their own approved speech and shut down speech they disapprove of but rather how the courts decide it. I have seen precious few instances where the courts put a halt to speech. Do you have any examples you'd like to air?

The 1st Amendment applies only to the government and thus whereas there might be a grey area for public colleges, private colleges are not bound by the 1st Amendment. The same applies to students and faculties of private colleges/schools.

Now, do we as Americans have a cultural tradition of allowing free speech, even if not specifically bound by the Constitution? Yes, I think that is a fair assessment. But, worrying about students is a socially conservative charade. A lot of conservative groups want to recruit or provoke on campuses and the students dont want it. But, today's liberal student is tomorrow's conservative crank. Thus, why worry?

And if students indeed suffer from a herd mentality, then maybe the rest of us are often guilty of the same. I've listened to radio shows by "The Great One" and he seems to be in a permanent state of outrage by "liberals and leftists" who are bent on turning this place into Venezuela. Are you listening to something similar? We might be somewhat astonished that the protestors manage to remain outraged for a month or more but consider how long Mark Levin has been able to maintain a state of outrage?

I have no problem with lawful and legal protesting, but the mobs shouldn't impede my right to move freely through cities, along roads and freeways, or to enter businesses I want to patronize. The thugs frequently do this as well, in order to intimidate others, including now, our law enforcement officers, as demonstrated in Seattle's "autonomous zone" where the police couldn't reach a person killed the other night due to the mob there, and the mayor's/city council's taking away their "less than lethal" rioter control aids like pepper spray and tear gas.

You know, I admit I haven't been following Seattle that closely. Seems like a failure of government to move in. I don't approve of that. What can I say, we have a lot of kooks in the USA. We have kale smoothie slurping hipsters in Seattle and we have camouflaged gun totting paranoids in Michigan. Viva la difference?

Yep, a certain party and their complicit judges have done just that MiniPigs (inviting anarchy), by encouraging the criminals, supporting them, flouting our laws, ham-stringing the law enforcement authorities, and calling for open borders, while at the same time calling for defunding or abolishing the police, refusing to permit law enforcement officers from arresting criminals in their states, counties, cities, and courthouses, and doing everything they can to demoralize and demean them with abject lies.

This judicial activism is also an invention of conservative media. Dont be taken in by it. I think the idea is something like, if you find a decision disagreeable, its because judges arent following the law. Judges and their decisions are subject to scrutiny and review and it is rare that a judge can get away with a decision that violates the law. I must and should point out that socially conservative judges are far more likely at the State level to make moral decisions at odds with the law than liberal ones. But, then these renegade decisions get challenged and reviewed.

Sometimes applying the law and rights yield unattractive results. This is just a byproduct of democracy. If someone is for monolithic consistency in the law, they probably really want an authoritarian regime. That would make them a lot more dangerous than protestors.

And the police are in a very bad place right now. I deeply sympathize with them but their own unions are doing this to them. Police union "no retreat, no surrender" and "we are the victims" attitudes are a good example of how inflexibility can yield a widespread reaction.

All this talk about left and right, the Constitution, what governments can and can't do is fine. But are you following the money? Have you notice the large donations made by large corporations to specific groups? Groups which a short time ago could only afford their protest signs to be written in crayon on cardboard and now are running commercials on major network TV.

I figured the authenticity would get co-opted by larger groups and corporations too. On the bright side for those who dont like the protests, that sort of thing, ironically, usually takes the heart out of a movement.

These protests arent completely about race, they are also about class and jobs and futures and both white and black people who would like to be able to afford to settle down and start families and become pillars of the community. The future is bleak for young Americans and their frustration got bottled up and released due to the pandemic. If it is just statues that take the blame, that'll be small potatoes. Which I cant even eat because of the carbs…sigh.

It is the same old same old. A rose by another name ---.

Yes, it's called Lobbying. It can be quite manipulative but it also protected 1st Amendment speech.

I agree with Kevin that men like Washington and Jefferson were liberals, in spite of owning slaves. Neither liked slavery, and both worked against it. GW actually freed his slaves in his will, and Jefferson was key in passing several acts like the Northwest Ordinances that limited its spread -- AND wrote powerfully about how evil it was. Of course their actions fell short of their ideals, as do mine. And YOURS, whoever you are.

Where have you been? Cuba is not the land of unicorns and rainbows. So they can read; but they can't leave.

Well, if you CAN'T read, you CAN'T leave either.

Easy there, tough guy. This thing I keep seeing from you that everyone is a Kommie rat unless they create a Fortune 500 company on their own is getting a little tiring. We have 16 million white people living in abject poverty and maybe another 25 million whites who are just hanging on for dear life. Is that their fault? Are they bad people? My mom comes from an incredibly poor family and without government help she would never have gotten an education. Not everyone thinks books are works of the devil, ya know.

The communists under Castro murdered people and stole their property. If what is going on in our country was a simple matter of peaceful protests, no one would give a crap. They are destroying our cities.

OK, stop right there.

I didnt bring up Cuba, all I said is at least he educated the people. You obviously live in mortal fear that we're becoming communist…I dont. But, social programs to help the needy aren't communism.

Dont know what to tell you about the cities; we will have to ride it out. If anyone fires on the protestors this'll get worse in a heartbeat.

Nobody will fire on protestors. Someone WILL fire on looters, sooner or later (probably sooner).

Minipigs is correct about the bleak prospects for the younger generations -- which is not unrelated to the unrest. But the garbage about America they are being taught is a big part of it too.

And of course there WAS about a brigade of Cherokees fighting for the Confederacy. There's even an Osprey about it!

I suggest that you stop supporting untruth.

" The Left here is primarily concerned with various forms of equality, education and opportunity."

This is not true they may say that but as soon as anyone disagrees with any part of their destructive agenda they are abused. If you say that " I look forward to the day when we are not judged by the color of our skin but the content of our character ". You will be called a racist or worse, funny thing is that is exactly what Martin Luther King said.

Stop agreeing with idiots, they will use you and spit you out

Now the mob is attacking statues of US Grant; the man who lead the union army against the confederacy. Someone needs to teach these kids history. They even attacked a statue of Gandhi. Gandhi, what could they possibly have against him? The Bolsheviks are out in full force.

Actually, Gandhi WAS a racist, but also perhaps a great man worthy of a statue.

link

If what you know about Gandhi comes from the film, well, you know some things that aren't so, and there's a LOT of questionable stuff the film omits.

Exactly, who's perfect anyway. Next the mob will want to destroy great paintings because they depict something not in line with their warped sensibilities. Good grief, where does it end with the perpetually offended?

And of course there WAS about a brigade of Cherokees fighting for the Confederacy. There's even an Osprey about it!

Its worse than that doc. At least two of the Indian nations sent representatives to the Confederate Congress.

Griievance is being weaponized.

And of course there WAS about a brigade of Cherokees fighting for the Confederacy. There's even an Osprey about it!

But I don't think that any of their chiefs were Joseph Brant of the Mohawks…

But some were slave owners, I believe

So, where will that put the Cherokees on the scale of victims – oppressors/racists?

Will the fact they were the indigenous inhabitants dispossessed of their lands by the white settlers and moved onto reservations (victims of racism and colonialism) outweigh their slave-owning and support for the Confederacy (racists and traitors)? Or vice versa?

Oh, the difficulties of being a politically correct crusader for justice! :)

Yes. And add to it that their chiefs, like John Ross, were mostly of white descent. (Ross was 6/8 white, iirc.) They (the leaders) could have lived just fine as citizens of Georgia but they wanted the power and wealth of running their own nation. Which they ultimately got to do, but in Oklahoma.