"Statue of George Washington Toppled and Draped In..." Topic

… Burning US Flag In Portland

Wow!

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Amicalement
Armand

Predictable.

They'll be going for the copy of the US Constitution next, in addition to statues in D.C..

And some still think that there is no "slippery slope."

How can man die better: than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods?

It is no longer Left versus Right; it is evil versus good, insane versus sane.

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind!

idiots…

There is an enormous difference between Confederates and the men who invented the United States. The bundling together of the two demonstrates a lack of critical thinking and historical awareness.

They'll be going for the copy of the US Constitution next, in addition to statues in D.C..

Except that it is a constitutional form of speech to burn the constitution. Someone might think you revere the document as more of a holy relic than a living framework of rights and liberties.

How can man die better: than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods?

I really like that. And I recognize it from the movie "Oblivion". I think it actually comes from a verse of ancient Roman poetry.

USAFpilot:

Macaulay's Horatius, see:

englishverse.com/poems/horatius

Verse 27:

"Then out spake brave Horatius,
The Captain of the gate:
‘To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods,"

They're attacking Jefferson now.

The people rioting in the streets, burning and destroying wantonly, attacking and injuring or killing law enforcement officers, and performing many, many other unlawful acts aren't concerned with our "rights and liberties", other than to try to impede or take them away by force.

The lunatics are running the asylum, and the national media for the most part are cheering them on.

This is utterly disgusting. As said above, it demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the history. We celebrate historical figures for their achievements, not for their failings when judged by modern standards. Shockingly, a statue of Julius Caesar has been damaged in Belgium. This does rather suggest that this is actually an attack on the entire concept of western culture as anything celebrating our collective civilisation is potentially seen as upsetting to other people's who do not have the same background.

This is an extension of the very recent acceptance that ANYTHING I do could offend someone else, whether my action is actually offensive or was done with any malice or intent to offend. It is a very short slippery slope from that concept to saying that people who don't share my history could choose to be offended by it, so we should remove all references to it so as to avoid and chance of offence.

This is cultural vandalism which has been actively encouraged by the "useful idiots", including those in our liberal establishment and education system who have refused to accept that people need to take responsibility for their own anger management issues. If someone else's cultural achievements offend you, don't trash them because you didn't contribute to them, go and celebrate what you have achieved instead.

It's the Nechayev phase of their "revolution": Destroy what exists first, then the new utopian order will magically arise from the ashes. (Note: It's never worked…)

Yep, the new mantra and paradigm seems to be "burn and destroy it all".

I wonder when they'll turn on their own, and destroy one party for their part in slavery, Jim Crow laws, and oppression of the masses?

You know that day will eventually come, assuming anyone knows anything about history, AND can use critical thinking to figure out who their real enemies are.

It's a tradition you started by pulling down statues of King George surely?

CASSIUS

Did Cicero say any thing?

CASCA

Ay, he spoke Greek.

CASSIUS

To what effect?

CASCA

Nay, an I tell you that, Ill ne'er look you i' the
face again: but those that understood him smiled at
one another and shook their heads; but, for mine own
part, it was Greek to me. I could tell you more
news too: Marullus and Flavius, for pulling scarfs
off Caesar's images, are put to silence. Fare you
well.

'Julius Caesar,' Act I Scene ii

The Communists/Socialists/Anarchists are using BLM protests to advance their agenda. I really hate election year!

Vandalism pure and simple. The people who did this are ignorant as well as stupid and their actions are both idiotic and monstrous.

And their appreciation for US history is lacking. Without Washington and his fellow Founders, there would be no United States, warts and all.

There should be no

Left versus Right

-and ideology is in itself both ignorant and intolerant. This whole episode is disingenuous as well as illegal. Political parties should never be counted over nation.

I find it highly ironic that numbers of these hooligans would profess admiration for such characters as Mansa Musa and Tippu Tip, both of whom captured and sold African slaves, or Mikhail
Bakunin and Karl Marx, both of whom had "problematic" views of human equality.
Of course I'm being generous in assuming that these cretins even know who any of the above named historical figures are.

Good point!.

Amicalement
Armand

It is no longer Left versus Right; it is evil versus good, insane versus sane.

Oh good, now you know how THEY feel.

@Brechtel

There should be no

Left versus Right

-and ideology is in itself both ignorant and intolerant. This whole episode is disingenuous as well as illegal. Political parties should never be counted over nation.

The voice of reason. Several of the Founders frowned on political parties as divisive for the nation's health and unity.

Additionally, left and right are thrown around too much here as if they're exactly the same as in inter-war Europe; they arent the same. The Left here is primarily concerned with various forms of equality, education and opportunity.

Protesters in San Francisco pulled down a statue of Francis Scott Key. All this tearing down of statues is just to get them warmed up. They are coming to tear you down too. You better be prepared.

Protesters in San Francisco pulled down a statue of Francis Scott Key. All this tearing down of statues is just to get them warmed up. They are coming to tear you down too. You better be prepared.

Oh great. What do you suggest I do, run into the street and tell them all to cease and desist?

link

Nope. Don't say anything. We have a 2nd amendment; exercise your right, be prepared.

My $.02 USD cents,

Before you know it, this current group of 'nutz' will be trampling most of our historical gaming figures.

This is beyond insane!
Tom Semian
Irvine, PA. 16329

Unfortunately this is just the beginning…….

We have a 2nd amendment; exercise your right, be prepared.

Be prepared for what…?

Dennis,

It is sometimes referred to as 'Horatius at the Bridge.' I used to read it every year to my history students.

Oh good, now you know how THEY feel.

Well said, MP, very well said.

And they have a right to protest (First Amendment); but they don't have a right to commit vandalism or to riot or loot.

"The Left here is primarily concerned with various forms of equality, education and opportunity".

LOL !!!

Thanks for the belly laugh this morning, MiniPigs.

Yea, that's why the leftists are FOR school choice, capitalism with few regulatory constraints, AND pitting various factions against one another, while making some "super citizens" (even illegal aliens) that have more rights and perks than others in order to make up for previous wrongs done to ancestors 150+ years ago ("In-state Tuition" for illegal aliens, but not for the children of real Americans born and/or living in other states across the land, for example). Punish the descendants of some for their ancestor's "crimes" and misdeeds in order to reward others unequally.

[Sarcasm intended in the above, in case you can't tell – leftists aren't for school choice, since they back the teachers' unions in order to ensure their propaganda is pushed onto our children in public schools and colleges; many of them hate and denigrate capitalism, which affords them to live the life of luxury they're enjoying – see a certain persons's very expensive refrigerator/freezer stuffed with ice cream; and their identity positions on who is oppressed and deserves reparations for that from people that had no involvement in any oppression of others at all.]

People in our country have a chance at equal opportunity, but are NOT promised equality, unlike in socialist/communist "paradises" like Cuba and Venezuela.

We have a 2nd amendment; exercise your right, be prepared.
Be prepared for what…?

When a city council voted unanimously to defund the police (Minneapolis); and when there exist neighborhoods in which the police cannot enter (Seattle); than you may want to be prepared to protect your family. The not so funny thing about these crazy city governments is that they all come from one political party. I wonder which one?

Muhammad Ali's son says dad would have hated ‘racist' Black Lives Matter

On the fourth anniversary of his death, Muhammad Ali's only biological son says that his father would be against Black Lives Matter, calling the movement "racist" and the protesters "devils."

The legendary boxer and activist stood up against racism throughout his life, but Muhammad Ali Jr. says his dad would have been sickened by how the protests have turned to violence and looting after the death of George Floyd.

"Don't bust up s–t, don't trash the place," he told The Post. "You can peacefully protest.

‘‘My father would have said, ‘They ain't nothing but devils.' My father said, ‘all lives matter.' I don't think he'd agree.

link

MiniPigs said: "The Left here is primarily concerned with various forms of equality, education and opportunity".

LOL !!!

Thanks for the belly laugh this morning, MiniPigs.

Oh, please dont mention it. I felt I owed you that considering you've kept me in stitches with your interpretation of the Constitution.

Yea, that's why the leftists are FOR school choice, capitalism with few regulatory constraints, AND pitting various factions against one another, while making some "super citizens" (even illegal aliens) that have more rights and perks than others in order to make up for previous wrongs done to ancestors 150+ years ago ("In-state Tuition" for illegal aliens, but not for the children of real Americans born and/or living in other states across the land, for example). Punish the descendants of some for their ancestor's "crimes" and misdeeds in order to reward others unequally.

I have no idea how you derived all this from what I wrote.

[Sarcasm intended in the above, in case you can't tell – leftists aren't for school choice, since they back the teachers' unions in order to ensure their propaganda is pushed onto our children in public schools and colleges; many of them hate and denigrate capitalism, which affords them to live the life of luxury they're enjoying – see a certain persons's very expensive refrigerator/freezer stuffed with ice cream; and their identity positions on who is oppressed and deserves reparations for that from people that had no involvement in any oppression of others at all.]

I never said this either. Let's calm down a little. They are interested in "universal" education. I didn't say they were for school choice. Frankly, Im not sure what you're even talking about. In any case, I meant that they are for universally giving people opportunities to attend school.

People in our country have a chance at equal opportunity

I am afraid this is as incorrect a statement as I've recently read. The economy and workplace has been somewhat poor for most for a long time now. I think it's fairer to say that most liberals dont have to be leftists in the socialist sense of the word; that is the label given to them by those who believe only unfettered capitalism is proof of not being a communist. Regulated capitalism can work very well if structured rationally.

but are NOT promised equality,…

I dont understand your meaning here. I thought all Americans were promised this? Maybe you need to flesh this out a bit more?

…unlike in socialist/communist "paradises" like Cuba and Venezuela….

I dont know that Liberals believe in a tyrant like in Venezuela. I do however think that Castro educated everyone and Im not sure that Cuba's poverty is due to much more than long term retaliatory sanctions by the USA.

In any case, you're conflating Liberal with Left winger in the Stalinist sense of the word. Liberals in the USA tend to love the Constitution and its operations and dislike tyrants. Oh sure, you'll find the odd anarchist but I think the same can be said of any body of activists.

"Equality" in the leftist definition, and/or the Dem. platform is that EVERYONE makes the same wage, like they did in Cuba, before the government there told a good portion of their people they were fired, and that they should go off on their own to create "capitalist" ventures in a country with no money.

The rest of their citizens got a 40% pay cut, from a whopping $30 USD a month to a frugal $18 USD a month.

"Liberals in the USA tend to love the Constitution and its operations and dislike tyrants".

Sorry, but in my experience, and with voluminous empirical evidence, it certainly seems as if that is untrue, e.g. their desires to restrict and/or eliminate the 1st and 2nd Amendment to the Constitution; openly stating that it is out of date and should be significantly changed, and/or removed from our society; actively supporting illegal declarations by those in power in order to further their aims; advocating openly and actively for ignoring "the law of the land" and those on the books to suit their needs; etc., etc., ad nauseum.

We used to be a nation of laws, and law and order.

Now, not so much, due to those trying to burn or tear it ALL down, just like they're doing to our various forefathers, businesses, and laws.

Minipigs, Castro's Cuba was a horror show.

@Thresher01

You might be conflating Liberals with Leftists and American Leftists with extremists. We have some control language issues. Liberals might be 2/3 of the country; all they want is to blend progress with the status quo rather than keeping everything frozen in time. In any case, we're going to have a hard time communicating if youre viewpoint is that ALL Liberals are Leftists and ALL Leftists are Bolshevik-anarchists, or whatever. If that's what you think, it may be you that is some sort of extremist.

I don't care about Cuba's wages, we were talking about universal education.

I don't know that it is worthwhile to lay it all out here but you might want to revisit and reconsider that empirical evidence. Liberals love the 1st Amendment and seek to have it rigorously enforced. Bear in mind that the 1st Amendment is a limitation on government to neither preclude nor promote religion which makes it something of a balancing act. I do note that a lot of religious groups consider limitations on their incursions into every day life to be an attack on the 1st Amendment but in a secular society, that is simply sour grapes and propaganda.

Additionally, note that the 1st Amendment also allows the protests:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances..

Emphasis added courtesy of MiniPigs. And before you get excited about looters and statue bashers; the police are to arrest those few and the remainder get to continue their protests.

In some ways it is unfortunate but the 2nd Amendment has never really had a serious challenge issued against it. Nor does the 2nd Amendment mean what the private sector, like the NRA, seems to want to convince their devotees that it means. It does, however, illustrate that the Constitution lives apart from any one group's hopes and dreams; both theirs' and yours.

About your nation of laws statement, consider what Justice Brandeiss said:

"Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy."

Where have you been? Cuba is not the land of unicorns and rainbows. So they can read; but they can't leave. The communists under Castro murdered people and stole their property. If what is going on in our country was a simple matter of peaceful protests, no one would give a crap. They are destroying our cities. A month ago, if someone would have said that there are people who want to tear down statues of Washington and Jefferson, you would have laughed. Not today, there really are radicals trying to do just that. The great thing about leftists is that they eventually eat their own. Can't wait to see what happens in CHAZ. They are already shooting each other in the so called "summer of love". Maybe it's good no police are allowed in CHAZ. I say just build a wall around it and watch it implode.

"You might be conflating Liberals with Leftists and American Leftists with extremists".

No, they're doing that with their party platform(s).

"Liberals love the 1st Amendment and seek to have it rigorously enforced".

No, they don't. They're only for it for their side, and attempt and frequently succeed in shutting down free speech, and/or in stifling it at every opportunity, e.g. on college campuses where only leftist speakers can talk, and advocate for their positions without rioting, threats, and people shouting or otherwise preventing opposing viewpoints from being heard. College administrations and professors are doing this too.

I have no problem with lawful and legal protesting, but the mobs shouldn't impede my right to move freely through cities, along roads and freeways, or to enter businesses I want to patronize. The thugs frequently do this as well, in order to intimidate others, including now, our law enforcement officers, as demonstrated in Seattle's "autonomous zone" where the police couldn't reach a person killed the other night due to the mob there, and the mayor's/city council's taking away their "less than lethal" rioter control aids like pepper spray and tear gas.

They were never able to reach the person killed, and the mayor was criticizing them for that, after she helped create the mess in the first place. Yep, murder in the "cop free" zones sure seems like a "street party" to her, apparently.

The police aren't able to arrest anyone, since they've been ordered to stand down and let their cities burn, and to permit the anarchists to have free reign. If they defy that, they'll lose their jobs and pensions.

That's why many are now calling in "sick", and/or quitting and retiring in large numbers.

Yep, a certain party and their complicit judges have done just that MiniPigs (inviting anarchy), by encouraging the criminals, supporting them, flouting our laws, ham-stringing the law enforcement authorities, and calling for open borders, while at the same time calling for defunding or abolishing the police, refusing to permit law enforcement officers from arresting criminals in their states, counties, cities, and courthouses, and doing everything they can to demoralize and demean them with abject lies.

All this talk about left and right, the Constitution, what governments can and can't do is fine. But are you following the money? Have you notice the large donations made by large corporations to specific groups? Groups which a short time ago could only afford their protest signs to be written in crayon on cardboard and now are running commercials on major network TV. It is the same old same old. A rose by another name ---.

I agree that "liberal" and "leftist" are different, and that most Americans are the first but not the second. But there are ranges of meaning, even so: I am a conservative who generally votes Republican (often holding my nose) and would consider myself a "classical liberal." Fifty years ago we all knew, otoh, who and what a "liberal Democrat" was, coming out of Progressivism and the New Deal. Today, though the old liberals still are in charge, the fire and fury and excitement (and danger) within the Democratic Party is from a radical Left.

Now the statue of Teddy Roosevelt is coming down in NYC. Apparently he represents "American colonialism". The lunatics are running the asylum.

If you vote party over person, then I would not consider that 'liberal' by any means-classic or no.

The Founders were the liberals of their day, and they founded a liberal republic.

The Founders were the liberals of their day

Would that also include the ones who owned slaves?

My $.02 USD (again),

I can now understand how the Jane McCrae incident drove middle-liners (like me) to the opposite side of ' the fence'.

I read online that a statue of U.S. Grant was attacked by this Corps d' Idiots.
Since American Indians, especially the Eastern Woodland Indians, should I be upset about any Indian statues? Especially of Joesph Bryant and those other Indian Chiefs who served in the Confederate Army a long time ago. I personally did not think so, but maybe I need to think this one over.
While I am at it, did any of the biblical leaders of the Christian, Moslem or Jewish religions own slaves? If so, should any statues of them be defaced and degrated? Once again, I surely hope not.
It is getting time to make these court jesters, get their criminal acts done.
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In Addition: I agree with the fellow below. This 'stuff' does not belong here. In fact, I don't think that it belongs on T.M.P. anywhere.
The above just got the better of me. Hence, I got carried away with posting it on T.M.P. But what I did print is how I feel
Tom Semian
Irvine, PA. 16329

Christ, I can hear the pearl clutching from here. Can someone explain to me how this thread isn't breaking the politics rule?

Would that also include the ones who owned slaves?

Yes, it would. Why?

Since American Indians, especially the Eastern Woodland Indians, should I be upset about any Indian statues? Especially of Joesph Bryant and those other Indian Chiefs who served in the Confederate Army a long time ago.

Do you mean Joseph Brandt (or Brant)? He lived from 1743-1807, so he did not fight for the Confederacy. He was a Mohawk chieftain who fought for the British in the War of the Revolution.

Who is Joseph Bryant? There is a former NBA player by this name but I haven't found any American Indians by that name