"To the 1/144 mm gamers" Topic

I'll make my own bocage and trees and maybe the occasion odd piece here and there, but I do not like building terrain. The bulk of it will be store bought (houses, roads, rivers, bridges, etc…)

Go Yanks!

Machinehead, your pictured Luchs looks great!

I've got some of his Sdkfz 221/222s that I'm happy with (especially since their barrels haven't busted in half yet).

Captaincold. Model railroad N gauge matches fairly well with 1/44th (it is actually 1/148th to 160th). N gauge pretty good for things like buildings or trains.

Also nearly forgot. Scott Washburn, who posts here all the time, has Paper Terrain with a very good selection in all scales to include an excellent selection of 10/12mm.
paperterrain.com

I have seen his work up at Historicon but havent taken the plunge yet.

I was an avid 10mm gamer for WWII for a long while but recently switched to 15mm for availability (locally). My advice is not to mix and match in a specific unit – things generally tend to look just fine for games as long as you don't try mixing vehicles from multiple manufacturers on the board – unless the odd case where they happen to actually measure things the same.

I thought about going 15mm too because there is so much of it out there, but there is a noticeable size difference between 1/100 and 1/144th.

I have tons of microarmor, but it's all ETO/desert and still waiting for rules I actually want to play. For a long time, microarmor has been pretty easy to find and cheap to acquire in flea markets. We all get too old to see it eventually.

If you're interested in small unit gaming (pushing squads, platoons, maybe companies), one reason to seriously consider 15mm is the availability of painted miniatures. I see FOW collections up for sale at every wargamer flea market. It's been a really popular scale for a long time and there's a lot of it moving around secondhand now, which is one of two reasons why I bought a few painted 15mm collections to get this PTO project going quickly. (The other reason was palm trees – the cheap mass-produced plastic ones are all drastically overscale for 6mm, but just fine for 15mm; I think they'd be okay for 10mm.)

I have only seen a couple 10mm collections for sale in the last few years, and they weren't cheap.

One thing I don't like about 1/144 scale airplanes is the "rare & collectible" aspect. Gashopon manufacturers make gorgeous models, but in limited production runs, and with some planes deliberately uncommon or rare; once the glut of new kits empties out of the market, the prices start to climb, and eventually the models are just gone. This creates boom/bust cycles in the market, and a pressure to buy huge mounds of planes right after release to avoid paying high prices later, or worse, being unable to get them at all. (After 4 years my 1/144 Battle of Britain collection still had no Spitfires, so last year I restarted it in 1/200 scale.) This has made me very hesitant about 1/144 land war items, but one of the reasons I keep checking this thread is to discern how much of a problem that really is. The availability of 10mm and 12mm wargaming miniatures might mean it isn't an issue at all.

- Ix

Marc33594, are you the same Marc from the old Panzer Place forum from way back?

0ne issue not mentioned so far for the more dedicated i.e. prepared to spend more, it thst 1/144 is a cale where it is practical to commission models that are not currently in productuion, or are poorly reproduced. Its about £50.00 GBP to £70.00 GBP to get a 3D CADDS models that will also be produced for others. Actual models printed from it are relatively cheap £5.00 GBP-£10 and even cheaper if you have your own 3D printer. These are models you are unlikeley to get otherwise such as speciallist engineering vehicels like bridge layers or smaller obscure vehicles. For a serious gamer this is a major advantage as it buys you vast numbers of new scenarios to improve and expands your gaming experience. The money sound a lot but in overall terms many gamers do spend hundreds of pounds on models so its really dependant on how you want to spent your budget. I for one have commissioned a number of 1/144 models ILTIS jeeps with and without Milan's with crew, Bridge layers, Infantry geenade launchers etc, much improving the gaming experience.

1/144 has a lot to offer the gamers and in my opinion is massively underated, not so much the minature collector and painter to whome size improves the art and detail at the expence of vast restrictions on what can be plausibly be done regarding games and scenarios.

About 10 years ago, seeing how the 1/144 pre-paints were becoming rarer I bought what I could afford from around the world, so have plenty of late-war stuff. The problem was the lack of British and of early war, my preferred period. For those I had to rely on the smaller Minifigs, Pithead, and Pendraken. To get 1/144 the only option was the relatively expensive Arrowhead and the ridiculously expensive Shapeways, Panzer Depot, etc. But Victrix and my simultaneous discovery of 3D printing changes everything! The free files on Thingiverse make it possible to print all sorts of vehicles for next to no cost. I will still rely on Victrix, Minifigs and Pendraken for infantry and smaller artillery, which is difficult to print.In the last week or so I have printed scores of early Soviet tanks etc. to go with the 300 painted Minifigs infantry who have been waiting for them for years!

Machinehead I was on a number of 1/144th forums. So very possible. I was one of the moderators on the old 1/144th scale Yahoo Group, can remember that one :)

At the time I started collecting my 1/144th scale kit, having been an avid Micro-Armor fan, was to get a set of WWII rules I'd designed onto the tabletop – being sort of a hybrid mix using free-form and board game mechanics.

I needed hex-based stands, because hexes were 'fit-able', and they could regulate and show when a unit's stands were in formation, or detached (separated).

At that time, each 1/144th size miniature reflected a platoon or troop type only, with a base's actual losses being ticked off of small triangles shown on each stand's counter (these being carried along underneath each base [magnetically], or arranged for referencing off-board). My choice to go with the 1/144th scale was done for easy recognition of what the unit stand was, with the platoon and troops strengths being ratioed to real numbers and tallied "remotely" on these unit stat counters (see below).

The collection has been migrating to 1-to-1 numbers now, so I'd never imagined nor planned what I've eventually collected.

Definitely no regrets though!

(old image here, showing the formation mechanics and how those hex bases helped to perform within my rules)

Has anyone repainted their 1/144 armor? Some of the paint jobs are kinda "meh". This is one aspect of the game I enjoy (not the infantry though)

While there have been some very awesome information here I'm still not sure I want to jump down this rabbit hole. While the Victrix line looks amazing, the availability of any given specific vehicle is still limited and I'm not really sure I want to pay $11 USD for some guy on Shapeways.

15mm (here in the states) is cheaper, nicely detailed if not better than the pre-paints and more importantly easily available.

However, with all this said, that rabbit hole is something I can take a look at down the road.

Thanks to everyone for making this post most informative!

Capt., most of all my pre-paints have been repainted (one can't really match the base colors of one manufacturer to another).

Also, when adding in your own unpainted models, it's difficult to match out-of-the bottle paint (or camo mixes) to the varied colors that the collectible pre-paints can, and do come in.

It's almost easier just to repaint em all, rather than trying to get this brand's dunkel gelb to look like that other brand's color, then if you feed in your own brushwork, gee, not only might the models vary, but their paint differences make the fact even more apparent.

(repainting is a personal choice, but given I've had the time, I do)

I've repainted some of the American versions of World Tank Museum put out by Arclight. Their Panthers, King Tigers and Jagdpanzer IVs all came painted in just plain dunkelgelb. These are some repaints.

You will also find a good selection of 1/144th-1/160th scale decals if you do repaint. Scale Specialists sold their decals to I-94 Enterprises and you can see their selection of 1/160th here in their shopping site
link

Though listed as 1/160th I find they work just fine with 1/144th. This is just one example of the accessories out there for 1/144th.

I don't repaint most of my pre-paints but just a matter of taste.

The Jagdpanzer IVs are still available here at a good price. link Also here. link

Marc33594, Victrix now has 1/144 decals available too. link

This might seem counter-intuitive, but at this scale camo patterns do their job well, and depending on terrain fidelity used, and those typical game viewing distance we play at, camo can have an adverse affect on model recognition.

With various mats and terrain setups I've tried, some models can actually get lost into the background. The more detailed the camo, the greater visual absorption (not always go for game impressions).

There's other reasons to go base color only in this smaller scale, or just with mild/single color camo application – collections can work for multiple theaters easier…..like those Pz. IIIs or IV F2s for mid-war Eastern Front will work ok for N. Africa if they're not already camoed striped.

An alternative to camo detailing is to apply more model stowage. Against a single color base coat, stowage applied can be seen well enough in this scale, and imparts that degree of variation to a model without impeding the model's recognizable silhouette or features.

(we don't play at small focal points where we can take the best [close-up] pictures)

captaincold69,
The point about 1/144 models is there size. Even 15mm Roughly 1/100 is perception wise nearly 3 time the size (volumetric scaling). This limits the ground scale you can use before at least to me, it looks daft. Tanks need real terrain and for me around 6:1 ground to model scale, WWII fields get look OK, with 15mm they are going to look too big. Again its a thing about what you want to do. 1/144 looks credible on an 8ft by 6ft table giving a real ground scale terrain. 15mm stuff is sufficiently large it starts to look daft at the same ground scale. Again if you want unrealistic terrain that may not be an issue but the vehicles will look a bit odd when at close range, but only again if you are using something close to a linear scale. Many popular "games" dispense with reality in ranges and stuff that would be off table with a sensible ground scale are on table. You pays your money and takes your choice, cost vs play ability, appearance.

UshCha

I can't argue anything you just said. I like the availability of 15mm but you are correct. 15mm looks a lot bigger than 1/144 when you have them on a table.

I still need to ponder all this. I don't even have a table setup yet, but I know 1/144 will look more to scale on a table (this is from seeing TONS of pictures online).

Since I'm now shifting my focus to the Normandy setting, the Victrix line suits my needs. From there, I have time to acquire other assets as I go and it's not like I'm dumping hundreds of dollars at once.

I know I'm making this harder than it needs to be :)

captaincold69, it would be no fun if you did not.

So, I spent several hours perusing Ebay and a couple online sources for the pre-painted 1/144. I have to say it was pretty disheartening. I know it's an issue of supply vs demand, but I just can't see spending $10 USD+ on 1 kit. I'm envious of some of the collections I've seen here, but as someone who is just starting to amass a collection these pre-paints are NOT an option. Even if I was flush with cash, it's just too much.

Haven't given up, but I'm thinking these little pre-painted beauties aren't an option.

Still, between the Victrix line and the 3d print on demand and possibly some of the 12mm resin/metal options, it's still doable.

So, just so things are crystal clear for me…..

Minifigs and possible Pithead would work with 1/144 kits? (as long as I'm NOT mixing tank types)…correct?

Again, thank you all for such an amazing conversation (and sharing all these pictures). This has been very enlightening!

There are a few other options. Revell Germany has these – 2 Shermans, 2 greyhounds and 2 trucks at a good price. link Pegasus has these pre-paints also at a good price. link

Pegasus 251's are nice and scale well with other WTM 251's I have. The /9 and the /22 are a bit annoying since I really need the /10. Can't comment on their tanks.

The Revell set is nice as well, and useful, but now discontinued. There's even an etched brass super detailing set for it if you're a complete masochist.

Yeah, supplies of the pre-painted stuff have really dried up over the last couple of years.

I'm really hoping the Victrix line works out – it might also prod some of the other makers fill a few gaps in their ranges. Though I'd have liked to see a little more balanced initial release i.e. not all AFVs. Still the Stugs and the Cromwells are welcome.

Based on my limited experience of 3D printed models at 15mm I'm not sure I'd use them for armoured vehicles, but I've been intending to get some lorries to fill out my motor pool. No one really looks at them, they tend to hang around the back of the table in smaller scale games, so I'll be blowed if I'm paying £4.00 GBP-5 a pop.

There are also some Japanese manufactures who can be found on Hobbylink Japan who make some resin kits of more obscure stuff. Not badly priced but postage may be a deal breaker – can't comment on quality but I'd be surprised if its less than good.

I started out basically trying for a platoon of infantry and a platoon of tanks for each side for knock about games. Needless to say project creep set in…

These are from the Pegasus War of the World set but they are the same as the Pegasus pre-painted Shermans except they came as an unpainted kit.

Damn…..those are NICE.

Thanks. :D More of my stuff here. link

Also nice painting guides that I use for inspiration here. link

Had a quick look HLJ last night. They now sell an interesting range of models (described as die-cast with plastic?), available as castings and pre-paints, from a company called Pro-Hobby. Bit more expensive than Arrowhead, but obviously postage will bump that up even more. They seem to do a wide range of stuff – soft skins, AFVs and artillery, including quite a bit of stuff I've not seen elsewhere. Detail looks more than acceptable for wargaming. though I swear I can see 3D printing striations – I would assume from the 3D printed master used? Definitely worth a browse. Can't seem to find any other web presence for the company – guessing their actual website is in Japanese!

HLJ are still selling stuff from small scale resin kit manufactures, which is a bit pricer still. Again plenty of oddities and stuff otherwise I've not seen other than via Shapeways. And for those looking to wreck their wallet and their eyesight there are the £20.00 GBP a model super detailed kits!

And there are also know 4 less Jadgpanzers and 4 less King Tigers in Magister Militum's stock!

/edit
The Pro-Hobby range also includes some rather nice resin terrain pieces mostly ruins and things obviously intended as settings for dioramas – but price seems very reasonable.

Worth looking into Butler Printing as they seem to have a fairly good selection and reasonable prices on 3d printed kits. Have been told their quality is better than many of their pictures on here indicate :)

Also check out Kamiya on Ebay. Pricey but some very interesting kits.

Victrix size comparisons. Shermans – WTM, Revell, 21st Century and Victrix.
Panthers – 21st Century, Dragon and Victrix.
link
link

Machinehead, the Victrix models seem to size pretty well with WTM and Dragon models (with their weapons/barrels being a bit more hefty for wargaming perhaps).

Thanks for these comparison photos!

Btw, I got my 1/144th scale decals order from Victrix in around 23 total days, so not a bad delivery time.

I Really like the Victrix models. I have not built any yet but the 'open hatch with commander' option is a winner for me!
For British and U.S vehicles, Butlers are a fair option. The pics are of 15mm…10mm (1/144), have less detail such as rivets and track guard brackets BUT although still present, the printing ridges are a little less noticeable. Tracks are a bit plain…but vehicles with the Sandskirt option are great! For Brit and U.S vehicles, adding appropriate mountains of stowage and cammo would certainly give an acceptable game piece.
On ebay, there are still good suppliers of 1/144 Takara WTM vehicles from Japan. A seller from whom I have bought TONS of stuff is still selling 2 -3 vehicles at VERY reasonably cost…with Postage to U.K, comparable to British Postal Rates, (As long as I do not go over the U.K £15.00 GBP horizon and incur customs charges!).
In the U.K, Magister Militum had Dirt Cheap (£2!) German stuff and ATGs, although stocks must be pretty low by now!
In metal, Arrowhead are still 'Best', although I am not a fan of the 'Turret Ring'…preferring a 'peg'.
The newer Pendraken Sculpts aren't bad…they have 'grown' a bit so SOME models are a good match with 1/144, (older sculpts were more 1/150). With detailing,etc, can be decent pieces…and excellent service in the U.K with a friendly forum.

Panzer 4 – WTM game piece and Victrix, Stug 3 – Dragon and Victrix and a Victrix Cromwell.
link

"I have not built any yet but the 'open hatch with commander' option is a winner for me!"

H-Horseman, excellent point!

Arrowhead also make excellent stowage packs, and I've encrusted lots of my 1/144th models with their stowage bits.

Machinehead, I'd say there's excellent size compatibility with the Pz IVs and Stugs in your comparison photos (so mixing previously-collected brands looks like a good proposition now with the newly available Victrix models).

So Headless Horseman who is your supplier to WTM on Ebay, inquiring minds want to know! :)

The more I see of the Victrix the more I like! Although the spaced armour on PzIV and Stug is probably not removable, it has struts…the lack of which has been a grumble with many makes.

For Takara WTM 1/144 on ebay, my favoured supplier is:

auction

Or just search for the above description and look for the tanks with the cigarettes in the pics!
Tip: To get past the rather worrying 'Japanese Doll' figurines, just search 'her' site for 1/144! lol.

No lost packages. Very low shipping to U.K. and will combine postage if asked. The only time that I mentioned that a Firefly had a damaged gun, (Not Vendors fault!), I received a replacement in next order without asking! Delivery was VERY quick, (about a week), given the distance… although, given the present situation, I would expect much greater delays and possibly less reliable shipping from Postal Services. I have been waiting for an M20 & Schwimwagen for a couple of weeks now…but think it will turn up eventually.
Over the years, I must have bought well over 100+ AFVs from this seller…1 or 2 sale items at a time. If what you want is not there, go back a few weeks later…she seems to be able to re-stock quite often, somehow! Please be courteous! :)

The ONLY WTM item that I have never seen for sale on this vendor's site has been the M4A3(75mm) Sherman. VERY luckily, I was able to get hold of a couple of 'Platoon Packs' from other vendors…and the very rare 'Winter' variant on a couple of occasions! They REALY ARE Hen's Teeth!. Given that, the Victrix Shermans are a wonderful boost to plastic 1/144.

The spaced armor on the Stugs can be left off but not on the Panzer 4s.

Thanks for the comparison shots Machinehead very useful.

The Victrix stuff looks good though the detail looks a little soft too my eye. Not as crisp as I though it might be. Though Cromwells and Stugs aside I'm probably more interested in their future releases! A Sdkfz 251/10 would be most appreciated…. I might also be in for some early Russian armour if they were to do it.

Have also used the above mentioned vender from the UK and found them equally reliable.

Victrix Shermans ready to paint.
link
link

I have only very recently got back into WWII 1/72 AFVs, purely to populate the 2eme DB, for the Liberation of Paris.

But now I see models claiming to be 1/144 scale that are so highlighted and super detailed that they would pass as 1/35, but shown on the palm of a hand!

This cannot be done. This is Photoshop, or this is an artificial hand, that is at least four feet wide. Or maybe this is just amazing work. OK, I accept the latter. I suspect I should go back to Prussian cavalry at Waterloo.

LOL DeadHead!

I gotta hand it to you, you sure know how to bring home the bacon (well at least elicit the spam that is). :)))

Here's a handy troop of Sherman Mk.IIs that I'll be needing for a Western Desert scenario coming up next month, along with the rest of their squadron from the 1st Armoured Division, circa the 2nd Battle of El Alamein -

These little models I had custom casted in their British N. Africa guise (excepting the Project Poppy Grant), with desert spats and blanket boxes on the turrets, etc.. They've only seen action once before, but now reinforced up to full strength, they're ready to take on the best Rommel can field.

machinehead: Thanks, Good to know…you can't have enough Stugs !!!

Good move by Victrx…a beginner might not want all Six for NWE…so 'Winter' cammo…will need opposition…lol!!!

Heedless Horseman, if you need Panzer 4s that you can leave off the skirts there are these from Dragons new line of 1/144 vehicles. link

Thanks for that, machinehead. Those Dragon tanks look nice…will have to look out for them.