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takeda33304 Jun 2020 4:46 p.m. PST

I'm looking for 2 books, 1 on 1st Newbury and the other on Marston Moor so I can design the scenarios. Foards book on Naseby was superb and I'm kinda looking for books that will do the same for the above-mentioned scenarios.
Thanks for your time and help.

KeepYourPowderDry04 Jun 2020 8:01 p.m. PST

Newbury: the Forlorn Hope guide to 1st Newbury is pretty good albeit dated. As for more in depth volumes Battles of Newbury: crossroads of the civil war' by Chris Scott, or the Osprey.
Marston Moor is better served 'Marston Moor 1644 Battle of the Five Armies' by Newman and Roberts (naff title, good book); The Road to Marston Moor by Cooke. And of course the Osprey.


Both battles covered in Wanklyn's Decisive Battles of the ECW.

takeda33305 Jun 2020 12:08 a.m. PST

Marston Moor by David Clark and 1st Newbury by John Barratt cuaght my eye but have no clue as to content value. I have the Osprey and Forlorn. Foards Naseby has really spoiled me. Your reco was spot on.

Timbo W05 Jun 2020 12:13 a.m. PST

Great recommendations from KYPD. You might also consider Brigadier Young's Marston Moor, its old so a few inconsistencies with current understanding but reprints a lot of the primary documents.

If you want to go really old school, you can find the Battles of Newbury by Walter Money online. It's Victorian and rather confused in places, especially the maps that look like napoleonic battlefields, but again gives some original sources.

Timmo uk05 Jun 2020 1:10 a.m. PST

For 1st Newbury the Osprey book is good. It does a great job of explaining what I think was relatively confused fighting. It's not really a classic ECW battle (ie.with two wings of horse and foot in the centre) but instead the interplay of all arms makes it an interesting action. At certain points in time each different element has the advantage. On page 91 there is a brilliant classic Osprey mistake that still makes me laugh each time I see it.

I also have Christopher Scott's book, The Battles of Newbury, that I'd recommend.

To me Foard's Naseby is so good that it has become the gold standard that I'd judge any other ECW book against and even though you aren't focusing on Naseby I'd still read it.

takeda33305 Jun 2020 3:20 a.m. PST

Yes Timmo, I bought a copy and I agree that's why I asked about these 2 battles….ie any books on the same level as Foards or close to it.

BillyNM05 Jun 2020 5:47 a.m. PST

If you want a good map for 1st Newbury try Wikipedia (they're both high resolution):

picture

Also 2nd Newbury
picture

Mollinary05 Jun 2020 9:55 a.m. PST

Gloucester and Newbury 1643: The turning point of the Civil War by Jon Day. Excellent study. Anything by Newman on Marston Moor, and Wanklyn's Decisive Battles of the English Civil War is, in my opinion, a must buy. It covers all the expected battles, with separate chapters on sources and tend terrain, and on the battles themselves. It gives you the chance to assess what we know and, as importantly, what we do not.

Timbo W06 Jun 2020 1:13 a.m. PST

Hi Billy, yes those are the maps by Walter Money. The troops are probably in more or less the right place but the numbers and way they are deployed is quite imaginary.

I've wondered if these could be fun for Napoleonic scenarios, the first seems remeniscent of Waterloo to me!

Timmo uk06 Jun 2020 2:35 a.m. PST

Timbo W, are they Victorian in origin? Even the horse to foot ratio looks wrong, aside from the fanciful deployments.

Timbo W06 Jun 2020 2:39 a.m. PST

Yes 1877 or thereabouts, I am I intrigued by thoughts of cavaliers in column of divisions 😊

In the other hand the mapping of terrain is really useful

Timmo uk06 Jun 2020 6:04 a.m. PST

Indeed the notion of attack columns and deployment in such depth is entertaining.

Aside from that they are very nice maps and useful for the terrain. I actually think Osprey do a good job of explaining the confused nature of 1st Newbury in their Campaign title.

Basha Felika06 Jun 2020 7:48 a.m. PST

I grew up in a house on the site of those buildings just north of the tumuli shown on the Newbury 1 map!

takeda33306 Jun 2020 10:34 a.m. PST

I'm taking a hard look at Wanklyns book as a reference, it's stunning how different info is on the same battle and often very confusing. Still an interesting endeavor. The Osprey read is very helpful.
You have no idea how much I appreciate all your help and effort in putting forth suggestions. And thank you for your prompt replies.

Steamingdave212 Jun 2020 9:05 a.m. PST

The Battle for York: Marston Moor 1644 by John Barratt sets Marston Moor In a strategic context and gives a decent account of the battle. Lots of photographs of the battlefield as it was around 2000 and some simple sketch maps of the main phases of the battle.
I don't have anything significant on Newbury.

MacColla13 Jun 2020 3:56 a.m. PST

Another vote for Day's Gloucester and Newbury and Scott's Battles of Newbury. I have the Barratt book on Marston Moor though it is not as detailed as the Newbury titles. With Ospreys my experience is generally you get what you pay for. Most of the illustrations are nice.

takeda33316 Jun 2020 10:16 p.m. PST

Got a good deal on Day's book and Wanklyns…..in the post. Thank all of you for your suggestions. There is so much out there it's hard to know what's informative and what's repetitive fluff. Again thanks.

takeda33320 Jun 2020 12:36 a.m. PST

Wow, Day's book on Newbury has a different take on the battle from my other sources and makes really good points. Is there a book on Marston with this depth? I've been spoiled by Foards Naseby and hope for a single book on Marston and yes I have Wanklyns book.

Thanks for your recommendations.

Mollinary20 Jun 2020 4:57 a.m. PST

Hi again, glad you are enjoying this quest. Jon Day was a very Senior civil servant in both MoD and the Cabinet Office, and had a reputation, well deserved in my view, for the rigour of his analysis. Wanklyn's is not just a good analysis in its own right, it's excellent academic use of footnotes and bibliography allows the reader to follow up on points of interest. On Marston Moor, Peter Young's book is excellent because it contains reproductions of many of the contemporary sources. However, it has none of the results of the metal detecting surveys which occurred after it was written. For more recent accounts you probably need to rely on the works of the late Peter Newman and, more recently, David Cooke. I would hesitate to describe any single book as definitive!

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