"I Keil you ..... tank formation study and scale model effect" Topic

Hi Gents,

I'm reconciling some command distances for a WW2 rules modification I've been kicking around for awhile, and thought I'd create a scale model of a Panther company in blunt wedge formation (2 platoons forward – 1 back) to do some scale distance testing.

With the rules' ground scale set at 1" = 33 meters approx., this gives a manual-specified number stating 50 meters spacing between tanks to equal 1.5" between a game's tank miniatures. The actual scale effect of adding in the widths of the 1/144th scale Panthers seen in the schematic below, is to increase the total formation frontage to 660 meters vs. the specified 450 meters -

Overall, if maintaining the 1.5" spacing between models, this produces a Breitkeil with a frontage of around 20" on the tabletop.

Reducing the spacing between vehicles to 1" (33 actual scale meters), brings the frontage down to around 15" or 500 meters scale width. The models still look good with this smaller spacing interval, and the formation becomes closer to the actual starting-point specification.

Using 6mm micro-scale, or even 3mm minis would help alleviate much of this 'perceptible' scale model effect too.

Sort of an old-school study here, but seeing the minis on the board helps to reassure that the ground scale and rules might mesh without producing those odd-looking scale side effects.

Good diagramming.

They may not be very far apart but at least they are not "hub to hub."

Jim

Agreed. Nice job, and there are inevitable side effects of ground scale not being the same as figure scale. This looks like one of the more acceptable trade-offs.

…and THIS is why you see "parking lots" in rule sets. Tanks are hugely overscale in most games. Not just the usual FoW whipping boy.

Even at this scale a Panther should be approx 1/10" wide!

Great discussion guys – thanks for all the comments!

I think 15mm minis will work visually alright too (?) -

I always think that when I see tanks packed and maneuvering in tight lines they are not exactly working as individual tanks and one may as well go Rapid Fire and use 1 Tank = 3 – 5.

It is often down to the players, but some rules do seem to encourage tanks maneuvering around the battlefield light close packed Napoleonic Cav, and in many cases pretty well jousting with the enemy! Another problem seems to be cramming as many tanks as possible into a small area so that they can all shoot at the same target!

Tally Ho!

Tally Ho Nick!

Funny you've mentioned gaming with game stands being units like platoons (and while missing all the face-to-face gaming now), there's a 3mm WW2 conversion I did years ago and sold off recently, which I could've been playing solo lately (and having 2nd thoughts of reconstructing it all again…..oh good gosh).

Very nice diagrams … nicely done. I have learned it is better to use the terrain for cover & concealment then stay in some sort of formation in most cases.

But yes for gaming purposes I hate the hub-to-hub/parking lot syndrome.

Legion, you're good to use that terrain, as these formations would start bounding by platoons and using the terrain when the shooting started.

Nice stuff, Fly!

Tally Ho!

Chatting with Nick here, thought I'd go ahead and do a trial-run to see if I could recreate another 3mm scale project to replace the game kit I regretted selling off a few years ago…..I think it'll work fine, and especially – on the cheap this time –

Nicely done but personal preference really like those triangular stands you used to have.

Thanks Marc!

I liked the wedges too, some didn't….but one thing we had to make sure was not to confuse them with the game snacks. :)))

Here's a Sherman tank company ('paper' strength). ;)

The print color on the American vehicles is a little light compared to the Panthers, but the foam shadow does the needed "3D popping' aok -

Next up will be an M10 TD company, with their included jeeps and M20 scouts cars (the scout cars might need some custom manipulation of their basic image, but that won't be too much extra work).

Ok, last spam shot here before I start working on the full game board, and hopefully have that to show in a few days (it's being printed out on a 3ft. X 4ft. size vinyl sheet), and that'll give plenty of maneuvering room for this 1/600th scale battlescape.

The planned game situation and forces needed will be elements of the 11th Panzer Division vs. those of the US 3rd Infantry Division (from Task Force Butler), which clashed in Southern France as both forces drove northwards after the Operation Dragoon landings, and which fought a running battle along the Rhone River.

Here's a mock-up pic of a few M10 platoons laying in ambush as a Panther company approaches. A few vehicles from each TD platoon's scout section (M20s and peeps) were included on the bases too -

I promised a progress report (and this will get a new thread when it's done), but the 1/600th scale 'Montelimar Square' game board has been coming along -

Here's a better look at the terrain relief, which will note high ground, woods, and inhabited areas that'll block LOS in-game -

It's for 3mm size miniatures to battle it out on using an area movement system, but the overall board might serve as a scenario generator too, for creating tactical encounters for larger scale miniatures also.

Looks so cool. Nicely done!

Thank you Marcus!

I'm about 2/3rds of the way done with this, and maybe if finished next week, can show the whole thing then.

Interesting study and lovely terrain work!