"Ligny 1815 Museum" Topic

Good pics and great diorama…

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Amicalement
Armand

Cool!

Tom

Glad you like it my friend!. (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

Armand

Good one and another place to add to my 'must visit' list, which is nearly as big as my yet to read book list.

It's a very interesting little place. When I went there was also a 3d map with ?Brigade sized blocks for formations on it- of the situation at both Ligny and Quatre Bras at a certain point in the afternoon. The display did give provenance for the positioning of the various units (which I now can't recall).

One thing that display (which as I say covered both main engagements of 16 June) made me consider was the question of what exactly does 'on the field of battle' actually mean? IIRC it showed the position of the infamous French Dragoon Brigade which was the subject of such a hoo-har on these very pages a couple of years ago. Whether that Brigade was 'present' or 'on the field' of Quatre Bras is an interesting question. It was certainly much closer to Wellington's forces than Blucher and it would have been to engage the former much more quickly than the latter.

The display also (to me at least) reinforced how close the battlefields are to each other. I've seen it many times on maps of course and 'know' the distances involved, but this display was more impactful. In fact it made me think about how an engagement is defined and whether Quatre Bras and Ligny have separate identities in history because they had somewhat different outcomes. If either the French or the 'Prusso-Anglo-Netherlands'had decisively won in both areas of fighting that day- would it have been remembered in history as 'the Battle of Ligny-Quatre Bras'- like Jena-Auerstadt (perhaps obsolete), Aspern-Essling, Gravelotte-St Privat or Vionville-Mars la Tour? There are different circumstances- among themselves and with 16/6/1815 of course- to all of those other battle examples. But still, I can't pin down really satisfactory criteria for separating the identity of battles which happened at the same time close by each other.

Anyway- nice little museum- well worth a visit.

Happy for that my friend!. (smile)

Thanks ReallySameSeneffeAsBefore!

Amicalement
Armand

That's a really thought-provoking (and indeed thoughtful) question/point for discussion, RSSAB. There was probably more communication between Napoleon and Ney in 1815 than between Napoleon and Davout in 1806, with regard to the dual engagements mentioned above.
Perhaps the fact that one Army, divided into Corps of course, was facing two separate though allied Armies, is of relevance? I should think the Prussian and Saxon Armies in 1806 found liaison and co-operation easier than did Blucher's and Wellington's commands in 1815.

I went to Ligny 4/5years ago and didn't see any sign of a museum!

@ReallySameSeneffeAsBefore
Interestingly, French records of officer casualties (collated by Martinien) group both actions together as 'Ligny'.

Green Tiger…. for your next time…

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Amicalement
Armand

Jealous. I'd LOOOVE to visit Waterloo and Ligny.

Allan- that's a fascinating point about the French grouping casualties under the heading of Ligny. I can see why the French thought it was a more important battle- bigger, set piece battle, Napoleon in charge, they clearly won- but evidently Quatre Bras was seen as not just smaller, but so insignificant it didn't even merit its own casualty return.

I'm sure that if the Prussians and Anglo-Netherlands forces had been able to concentrate closer together on the 16th, the outcome would actually have been worse for them collectively- as D'Erlon's Corps would surely have managed to get into a single larger fight.

While the messy, bloody and inconclusive encounter battle we call Quatre Bras wasn't a great result for Wellington, even worse would have been to be dragged with a substantial part of his army into what he saw as a faulty defensive disposition opposed by a unified French Army. As it was, the the location of fighting on the 16th left just enough space to leave the Anglo-Netherlands intact enough to fight on the 18th and still close enough for the Prussians to support it. That would have been an exceedingly finely balanced calculation for Wellington to make on the 17th.