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"[Early Austria- K-K] What's the Goss On Austrian Lancers?" Topic


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23 May 2020 7:57 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Changed title from "[Early Austria- K-K] Whats the Goss On Austrian Lancers?" to "[Early Austria- K-K] What's the Goss On Austrian Lancers?"

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Personal logo SHaT1984 Supporting Member of TMP23 May 2020 5:43 p.m. PST

It has been a while since I researched in depth the Austrians c1800-05 and GMajor Stutterheim is desperate for his lancers (scouts?) from WF.

Previous knowledge says they did not, in fact the 'Austrian lights' in general, carry flags or guidons on campaign. Is this still the prevailing thought?
Thanks and regards,
davew

Personal logo Artilleryman Supporting Member of TMP24 May 2020 1:36 a.m. PST

I believe that it is. However, as your little soldiers are 'representative' if you want to give them their standards, why not. After all, I have far too many eagles in my post 1808 French army.

mysteron Supporting Member of TMP24 May 2020 1:42 a.m. PST

I beleive they were left at the depot.The era you are doing may be different as infantry battalions carried 2 flags then instead of the normal one.

I have seen many models of Austrian lights carrying flags/pennents on the wargaming table and producers like Front Rank make models specifically to carry them.

My lights will not be carrying them .

Personal logo SHaT1984 Supporting Member of TMP24 May 2020 2:56 p.m. PST

Thanks guys.
I'm only asking because Foundry do make them despite us knowing the truth 40 years ago. Likewise with others models, flags, troop types etc. one cannot expect 100% fidelity or accuracy.
Unfortunately this leads to deity and obeisance in the unknowing who believe everything they see.

I'm not adding them in for vanity, but do want to make use of an expensive piece of lead I have no choice buying (ie in packs). A bit tricky scraping the large belt off the NCO standard bearer, so I may 'proto-lance' one to stand with a command figure rather than the regiment, which in all probability will remain just squadrons anyway.

**Thanks Bill for correcting my English in title- but I wonder why when so many real 'terms' get left unaltered on more critical ones.
As a copywriter and manual writer/ auditor I'm well aware of the requirements for English, but have long allowed abbrevs. to take place where [loss of] clarity is not an issue.**
regards davew

mysteron Supporting Member of TMP25 May 2020 1:01 a.m. PST

It's really all down to personal choice .Like Artillery man states his French carry more Eagles .We tend to field more units wearing immaculate full dress uniforms than actually did on the battlefield.

For my Austrians I have Infantry no. 50 with Shako's an probably never actually wore them as they were disbanded in 1809.The flags mine carry may not be the right ones they actually carried.

So if you feel you want to use flags for your light cavalry then why not ?

Prince of Essling25 May 2020 11:43 a.m. PST

Philip Haythornthwaite/Bryan Fosten in Osprey Men At arms 181 "Austrian Army of the Napoleonic Wars (2): Cavalry" says pages 40-41 -

"In design and employment cavalry standards resembled infantry Colours, but were only 80cm square. Each regiment had one liebstandarte carried by the 1st squadron and 1 ordinarstandarte for each other squadron. The former were white, one side bearing a representation of the Virgin Mary, and the reverse bearing the full Imperial arms upon the breast of a crowned, black double eagle exactly as for infantry colours. The ordinarstandarte was yellow, bearing the eagle on both sides. Only from 1806 were regimental identifications added in the upper canton nearest the staff. The pike head was a gilt spear with an embossed double eagle and sometimes the Imperial cypher. Cavalry regiments appear to have used old flags long after their official replacement, even more than the infantry………. Heavy regiments carried all their standards in the field, but most light regiments did not."

So if you want them with a flag or more then do it!!!

Jcfrog Supporting Member of TMP25 May 2020 2:11 p.m. PST

I started to convert the cavalry standart bearers that should not be into messengers and aides. Cutting most of the poles to keave wgat gets painted as a telescope or a message in or nor a container, in 18mm often twisting a bit the arm. They could be getting a bottle too! Unfortunatelly , got this idea only last year, most of the needed guys already done.

Personal logo SHaT1984 Supporting Member of TMP25 May 2020 9:27 p.m. PST

>>So if you want them with a flag or more then do it!!!

Thanks all.
I don't.
I didn't suggest I did. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
I was seeking an update for certainty.

Yes JC, if I was to use them I'd do that too, as with many other French officers I've customised and continue to do so.
Problem sorted. ;-)
cheers d

von Winterfeldt28 May 2020 3:34 a.m. PST

@Jcfrog

Very good idea.

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