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"More unit size queries" Topic


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von Schwartz22 May 2020 6:52 p.m. PST

I currently am building some SYW units for use with Koenig Krieg rules. I have also used an old rule set called "Frederick the Great" now out of print. In both sets they had army lists for the primary participants. Both lists gave the Austrian line infantry a size advantage, 16 figures per battalion vs 12 figures per battalion for other nationalities. Also, in KK they give the Swiss regiments in French service, and the British Highland regiments too I believe, a size advantage, 16 vs 12 again. Are these based in fact and would it be appropriate, i.e. historically correct, to make these regiments/battalions larger?

BTW, the figure/soldier ratios for both rule sets I mentioned was, 1 infantry/cavalry figure equals 50 infantry soldiers or cavalry troopers w/mounts, 1:50. So 12 figures equals 600 troops, 16 figures equals 800 troops. Please, I know about "book size" vs actual troops on hand is quite different due to casualties and other factors, so please, no long dissertations about attrition, just assume that I am building all units to book strength.

Nichts23 May 2020 10:53 a.m. PST

Everything you want is available on kronoskaf.com

DFLange Supporting Member of TMP23 May 2020 2:54 p.m. PST

Kronoskaf is an excellent source and you should check it out for a variety of reasons. I have found the numbers in Koenig Krieg to be pretty accurate for "book" size. The official establishment of Austrian, Highland and Swiss in French service were higher than most other battalions.

von Schwartz24 May 2020 5:12 p.m. PST

Thanks I've always thought it easier to take figures off if you're playing opposite a real pundit who insists on using
"real" unit strengths, i.e. with attrition taken into account.

Actually, I do use Kronoskaf as my "go to" reference for pretty much all things SYW. But recently I've seen some contradictory information and I was wondering if it is common practice among other gamers of the period to use higher unit strengths.

Garde de Paris29 May 2020 9:18 a.m. PST

Hello, von Schwartz:

In the last century, my gaming comrades modified Koenigs Krieg to use 4 stands of 3 for the Prussians and 6 stands of 3 for the Austrians.

In this century, I acquired Old Glory 15's for Prussia and Austria, and I make them equal in strength. I began with 4 stands of 4 for each then added two more ranks to create battalions of 48 figures. I use 4 sergeants in each Prussian battalion, but only 2 in each Austrian battalion. So I have 4 "blocks" of 12 figures for each. Makes for a very tactical game!

I use 8 figures for all Austrian Cavalry squadrons, hussars included. I use 8 figures for Prussian Cuirassier and Dragoon squadrons, but only 6 figures for Prussian Hussars. But Prussian hussar regiments had (typically) 10 squadrons (I think Belling eventually had 15?).

Duffy's most recent 2-volume work on the Austrian Army leads me to believe that the Prussians may have had the edge in battalion size, but not by much. Certainly Austrians not 50% larger!

In addition, Simon Millar in his work on Kolin (Osprey Campaign book) notes that the Prussians had 32 battalions of Infantry with 19,500 men 609 men per battalion. He shows 20 "regiments" of cavalry with 14,000 men, 700 per regiment. (Would be better to know haw many squadrons were there.)

The Austrians had 54 battalions for 34,000 men 620 per battalion. Essentially equal to the Prussians. 38 regiments of cavalry, 17,200 men for 465 men per regiment. This is where it is most important to look at squadrons.

My own "guestimates" suggest that the Austrians had 629.63 men per battalion; and 109.868 men per squadron.

The Prussians had 123.89 men per squadron; and 696 per battalion.

You might just average both sets of figures, and consider their squadrons and battalions essentially equal.

GdeP

von Schwartz29 May 2020 7:20 p.m. PST

OK GdeP, understood, but why is Kronoskaf so much different in their breakdowns? Using their numbers, I currently have 12 figs per infantry battalion for the Prussians and 16 figures for Austrian. Heavy and medium cavalry, I use 15 figs per regiment for Prussian and 18 for the Austrian, of course 1 squadron, of the Austrians come off brigaded as composite elite units. So removing them, only 2 figures though, that gives a regimental size of 16 figures. So, the Austrians are only slightly larger than their Prussian opposites. The hussars are similar with 20 figs for the Prussian regiments and 18 for the Austrians.

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