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"Libya... who what why?" Topic

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22 May 2020 5:11 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Changed title from "Lybia...who what why?" to "Libya... who what why?"

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©1994-2020 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Jcfrog Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2020 2:00 a.m. PST

Can one explain what happens now in Lybia? Heard of Turks, fregate and so on. Doe the Sultan want his pre 1912 empire back?

Major Mike22 May 2020 5:53 a.m. PST

It's all tied to the Muslim Brotherhood.

Rakkasan22 May 2020 6:17 a.m. PST

Probably not the Muslim Brotherhood, they were never that influential in North Africa outside of Egypt.
More likely it is about access to oil, regional influence, and concerns about who will run the place. The Turks want their guy or faction to win. Other nations are supporting other factions; some more actively than others.

john snelling22 May 2020 6:59 a.m. PST

Turkey supports the United Nations-recognized Government of National Accord, or GNA.

Russia, United Arab Emirates, and Egypt, among others supports the Haftar's Libyan National Army, or LNA.

Turkish deployments seem to largely be limited to special operations forces, intelligence operatives, and various supporting elements. Turkish Navy warships have been patrolling off the coast. In addition, Turkey has facilitated the deployment of a significant number of militiamen from Syria to Libya to fight on behalf of the GNA

Ed Mohrmann Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2020 7:09 a.m. PST

Is this going to become a sort-of SCW almost 100
years on ?

15mm and 28mm Fanatik22 May 2020 7:31 a.m. PST

Turkish strongman Recep Erdogan has illusions of grandeur and wants to make Turkey into a regional power and powerbroker/influencer in the region, so he's been active in contested places like Syria and Libya. If he succeeds, he will maintain power back home and distract a potentially restless populace from an ailing economy.

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2020 7:48 a.m. PST

I really don't care, though clearly, taking out Kadaffi was a major blunder.

Prince Alberts Revenge22 May 2020 8:18 a.m. PST

Interesting and sad state of affairs. Haftar, a US citizen, has Russian, UAE, Egyptian, French and other support. The GNA has UN and Turkish backing. Haftar seemed to enjoy early success as his opposition was disorganized. As he's continued his offensives, resistance has stiffened and I imagine his logistical lines are stretched. Haftar may have some lofty title like Field Marshal but I don't think it reflects his military prowess. During the war with Chad he was captured which led to his defection to the US.

I can't see the war ending anytime soon as it doesn't appear either side has the ability to finish the other off. Very unfortunate for those caught in the middle.

john snelling22 May 2020 12:18 p.m. PST

Recently there are reports that six MiG-29s, as well as a pair of Su-24 Fencer combat jets, had recently arrived to join Haftar's Libyan LNA.

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2020 11:02 p.m. PST

I really don't care, though clearly, taking out Kadaffi was a major blunder.

Yup, and for more reasons than the stability of Libya and its neighbors.

Kadaffi gave up his WMD program: deposed and killed.
Saddam gave up his WMD program: deposed and killed.
Ukraine gave up their Soviet WMD (after assurances of their territorial integrity by the US and Russia: invaded and divided

And some folks wonder why the NorKs aren't in a rush to disarm? Man, I'd do everything I could to arm up.

Uparmored In the TMP Dawghouse23 May 2020 6:16 a.m. PST

Saddam never gave up his WMD program. Did everything to evade UN inspections and the United States, who had the guts to actually kick in the door to Saddam's kingdom, uncovered the numerous WMD that weren't rushed over the border into Syria in '03..

Khadafi was pointlessly deposed with the support of Obama after he had already truly given up his WMD program and come on side with the West.

I don't know about Ukraine but basically I summise that darthfozzywig you are full of Bleeped text

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP23 May 2020 7:26 a.m. PST

So you're misinformed about one, in complete agreement with me about the another, and admit to ignorance about a third and somehow *I'm* the one full of it? LOL Nice work encapsulating a typical TMP thread.

USAFpilot23 May 2020 9:39 p.m. PST

Saddam didn't cooperate with UN inspectors; Gaddafi did. Though we should not have had a hand in the ousting of either. Neither of them were nice human beings but Saddam was contained and Gaddafi was no threat.

15mm and 28mm Fanatik23 May 2020 10:14 p.m. PST

I don't know about Ukraine but basically I summise that darthfozzywig you are full of bleep!

Never surmise anything on anyone about a subject you admittedly don't know about or resort to personal attacks that the Editor has to censor, lest your aim is to further discredit yourself and make others not take you seriously in the first place.

Ukraine joined the NPT (non-proliferation treaty) and gave up its nukes in 1994. In 2014, the democratic revolution ("Maidan") deposed pro-Moscow president Viktor Yanukovich, thereby removing the final impediment for the former Soviet republic to join the EU and NATO. Moscow reacted to this development by taking the Crimea back and doubling down on its support of separatists in the Donbass region in eastern Ukraine.

Putin likely would not have retaken Crimea or at the very least would not have had the perfect excuse to do so had there been no Euromaidan revolution and the threat of Ukraine bringing NATO to its very doorstep. In the 90's NATO has given Moscow numerous (albeit unofficial) assurances that it will not expand eastward, which hasn't been the case.

In any event, Ukraine didn't really want to keep the nukes it inherited from the Soviet Union anyway because they would have been an unwanted drain on its resources. Remember, all the former Soviet republics were in very bad economic shape when the USSR collapsed in 1991.

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