"Venezuela says Iranian tankers will get military escort" Topic

"Venezuela on Wednesday said its navy and air force would escort Iranian tankers arriving with much needed fuel, after Tehran warned of "consequences" if the US stopped the ships from reaching their destination.

"We're ready for whatever, whenever," President Nicolas Maduro told state-run media, thanking "all the support" from its Middle East ally in its confrontation with the United States…"
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Ha!Ha!..I don't want to imagine the TERROR that this will spread throughout the American Fleet…

Amicalement
Armand

That seems unsafe for the tankers …

One of the biggest oil producing nations importing oil….

Ha!….

Populism made things even worst….

Amicalement
Armand

Come on Tango, you misspelled Communism.

Your friend,

Vince

The tankers are bringing refined oil. Venezuela produces much more oil than it can refine.

Let's hope there are no more incidents.

Whether you like it or not – Maduro was elected in fair elections and remains extremely popular.

It remains likely that the US will support another coup to overthrow Maduro and install an unelected dictator.

Full scale invasion with a goal of regime change is less likely but still possible.

Bolivia has recently undergone a coup and electoral interference funded by the US in some form or other has swung elections in several other South American countries.

America wants its backyard back….

Iran is delivering gasoline because Venezuela has so mismanaged their refineries that they can hardly make gasoline any longer.

Over 100 nations recognize Maduro as illegitimate including the US, Canada, Australia, UK, most of Western Europe, and Central and South America.

And if by extremely popular you mean over 100 rioters killed and over 1,000 arrested by his police then I suppose Maduro is popular.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

Maduro was reelected with an increased majority in 2018 despite the efforts of the US to interfere.

I don't pretend he's a saint, but he is the democratic choice of Venezuelans whether you like it or not.

You cannot criticise Maduro or Chavez without acknowledging the impact of decades of economic warfare waged against Venezuela by the US and others.

YouTube link

There are lots of reports that the "election" was not fair.

I will grant that he does have some popular support, as well as lots of opposition.

His socialist policies have wrecked a once good economy, as socialism always does. That's why the Chinese have embraced capitalism with a vengeance.

Skarper… sorry for that… but.. you don't know nothing… (as in Games of Thrones)…

Maduro and Chavez are not democratic guys… ask the thousands of Venezuelans who has to fly from their country … why?

Venezuela follow the path of Cuba… also Bolivia with the "eternal" Chavez…

Imho… populism is the first step to communism… I live now in a country like that… so I know what I'm saying… Argenzuela!…

Amicalement
Armand

Tango – I wish you would refrain from opening politically divisive topics on TMP.

It's not a good forum to discuss these issues and it only makes us fall out with one another.

I don't think you're correct about populism necessarily leading to communism and if a people genuinely want a communist system that is surely their choice.

I'll admit there is mismanagement, corruption and human rights abuse in Venezuela. There is also US interference in elections and economic warfare. Then there is the recent attempted coup.

Anyone who actually believes the Maduro or Chavez were in any way democratically elected is unbelievably naïve. Outlawing opposition parties while intimidating and imprisoning opposition candidates is not democracy. Or at least not any type of democracy of which I know.

Oh and your the one who started openly discussing politics
in your first post.

Wow, do you really consider the radical left website "The Intercept" to be a reliable information source?

I don't think TMP's the right forum for political topics and I wasn't the first to politicise this topic. Perhaps I shouldn't have taken the bait.

Venezuela is a complicated subject. There are grave problems within the Maduro regime and significant problems coming from outside.

The International Electoral Accompaniment Missions declared the May 20 Elections Free and Fair. It's a well respected organisation. More so than many of the news outlets that declared the result illegitimate without investigation.

I am worried when Maduro is finally toppled, the regime that follows will have a worse human rights record. That doesn't excuse Maduro in any way. I hope that much is obvious.

Anyway – we'll see how it plays out.

I don't particularly want to continue arguing about this. I've made my points.

PS – The Intercept does generally excellent reporting. It's independent and hardly radical unless viewed from the bubble of US MSM and Conservative talk radio.

"Tango – I wish you would refrain from opening politically divisive topics on TMP…"

Really?… I have a loooong time here posting much more than anyone… how many "opening political opinions" you have read from me?…

In this very special case … I could not less than give my opinion on something that I am experiencing day by day … and that I share with many Latin American brothers … it would have been very difficult back in the 1930s if someone wrote that Hitler o Stalin were "elected in fair elections and remains extremely popular …" (smile)

I agree that the subject does not give for more.

I only hope that none of our fellow had the bad luck to live in one of these countries.

Amicalement
Armand

Godwin's law strikes again!

Who will be escorting the cargo ships laden with toilet paper?

Venezuela and Iran are perfect buddies.

Personally I'd give good money to see Maduro asked in a public press conference (not going to happen) just what his opinion of the Iranian revolutionary governments treatment of his socialist brothers after the revolution!

The last Venezuelan election was dodgy at best and worst utterly fraudulent. A lot of states without any particular axe to grind with the Maduro regime certainly came to that conclusion and were happy enough to make that opinion public. There is a certain amount of sympathy amongst elements of the left, at least in the UK and probably more widely in the 'west' which can rear its head in reportage, for plucky little socialist Venezuela standing against the evils of the neo-liberal free markets! Goodness only knows why since the country is an economic train wreck, rife with corruption linked to the international drugs trade, and clearly governed by clique who are either ideologically inflexible to the point of utter stupidity or happy to kick the proletariat under the bus to cling to power…

Just so you know … not long ago the Business Group where I work had a Commercial Representation in Caracas (as in all Latin American countries) … I am the CEO of all of them and responsible for Foreign Trade … so I must visit them regularly so much … I was in one of the elections of the Chavez era … and I lived exactly what happens in my country in the poorest areas lack of education … the poor have their identity documents withheld for 48 hours before the election under the promise of the payment of a pittance … they are kept locked up or watched until the day of the vote … that day they returned the documents to vote and if the result of the vote is what they expected … sometimes … they are paid what is promised … many times some a less misery…

They didn't tell me that … I lived it …

Democracy…?

Much better is in Cuba…

Amicalement
Armand

I don't see how that would help fix an election.

I know English is not your first language Tango, so perhaps there is something which is not clear from your explanation.

If the ballots are secret in Venezuela [nobody claims they are not] you cannot bribe or intimidate people into voting for a particular candidate.

Some countries fine people who do not vote [Italy and Australia are two examples].

The only impact of this strange practice you describe would be to increase turn out.

Sorry you don't understand my english my friend… the "secret" ballots are not so secret as I tried to explain… you have to vote with your ID… the government leader of your area / neighborhood / emergency village / etc …He takes it from you / retains it / takes it from you before your vote … makes you sign a paper / document / text where you agree to vote for the candidate who points you out (the voting ballot) … and promises you a gift in money or another object (sneakers, clothing, food, tv, etc etc) ) once the count is finished at the table where you voted…Why do they retain your ID? … so that no one will vote for themselves when they decide … THEY ACCOMPANY YOU TO VOTE AND THEN GIVE YOU YOUR OWN DOCUMENT AT THE GATE OF THE PLACE WHERE YOU WILL VOTE …
once you vote … you go out and return your document … after the election is finished after the vote count THEY ACCESS THE LISTS OF THE VOTES MADE (amount of each political party) … THEN ACCORDING TO THEIR CALCULATIONS THE VOTES OBTAINED HAVE BEEN SUFFICIENT (ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN PREVIOUS LISTS) OR NOT … once that is verified … the gifts are distributed … or not …

Sorry for my bad english…

Amicalement
Armand

Thanks – I now understand your point.

I don't want to keep this thread going when everybody has had their say. It's repetitious and tedious. So I won't say any more.

The first of these 5 tankers has arrived in Venezuela unmolested.

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And who would molested them…? (smile)

Amicalement
Armand