combatpainter  | 11 Sep 2005 3:21 p.m. PST |
I would like to uncover this and what better place than TMP. This thread has been debated before but I don't remember the consensus. They were the 500. Did they have "Pea Dot" jump smocks or did they wear the traditional 'Splinter' pattern jump smock with the SS insignia on the collar or helmet? If anyone has any references, it would be helpful. I have a variety of resources and none touch on the uniform for these particular units. |
| Wargamer Blue | 11 Sep 2005 4:20 p.m. PST |
Found one colour template in an Osprey book, "Axis Forces in Yugoslavia 1941 to 1945." The figure is not wearing pea camo, but the standard splinter pattern. To quote the book, "A member of the sole Waffen-SS parachute unit, this trooper wears Air Force equipment – the M1937 paratroopers helmet with Air Force eagle decal, the M1941 camouflage smock showing the Air Force breast eagle, and Air Force parachute webbing. His SS membership is only revealed by the peakless field cap introduced in 1940." Hope this helps you out. |
| GrotGnome | 11 Sep 2005 5:00 p.m. PST |
I Agree with "rat of tobruk, I've read the W-SS association photo book on the W-SSFJ battalion 500/600 and they wore standard FJ unifoms with W-SS rank distinctions.Another seemingly little known fact about their attempt to capture/kill Tito was that the operation was planned and organised by Otto Skorzeny. |
| French Wargame Holidays | 11 Sep 2005 5:08 p.m. PST |
I have a colour picture of an original jump smock in a book written by walther (the 5 book series), i have lent it out to a guy painting the 12th in pea dot, but I should get it back this coming weekend, i can scan it for you if you like. cheers Matt |
| combatpainter | 11 Sep 2005 6:10 p.m. PST |
BlueWillow, thanks. Painting the 'Pea Dot' is not the challenge but rather that I am trying to ascertain as to the existence of these smocks in that camo style. I do appreciate your offer but not necessary. Do you know were Walther got his info? Does anyone have an original source (first hand) that these 'Pea' camo suits existed? This is a rather an obscure query on my part but intriguing nonetheless. At some point in the past TMP has had a discussion about this. I wish I could track it. There seems to be contradictory evidence about this matter. I need all the WW2 experts to chime in here to resolve this matter. Some say yes and some say no. |
| GrotGnome | 11 Sep 2005 7:28 p.m. PST |
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| bhall389 | 11 Sep 2005 9:15 p.m. PST |
That seems pretty conclusive. When I toured the Drvar area in late 2003, I was fortunate to be able to do a battlefield tour of the Rosselsprunge mission. Based on the terrain, and road grid (which hasn't really changed), the Germans really had no chance of linking up with follow on forces. They did however scare the the crap out of Tito and the British advisors, and Partisan losses were heavy. There is a glider and an L33 tank outside the museum there, but they are in horrible shape (go figure). Brian |
| Wargamer Blue | 11 Sep 2005 9:44 p.m. PST |
Brilliant link Evan. What a great site. |
| Elhiem | 12 Sep 2005 5:58 a.m. PST |
There is a Pea dot jump jacket in a french museum whether it was ever worn or not is open to debate. |
| LJMORGAN | 12 Sep 2005 6:39 a.m. PST |
the pea dot pattern wwaffen ss camo jump smock was never worn. one of the trains captured by americanforces at dachau was full of them. they did exist but were never worn. forgotten legions is the reference and has a photo of the rare smock. |
| combatpainter | 13 Sep 2005 10:13 a.m. PST |
Elheim, we are now getting warmer. Thanks for the info. LJMorgan, great anecdote, thanks. |
| combatpainter | 14 Sep 2005 5:54 a.m. PST |
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| starsnbars1 | 14 Sep 2005 9:27 a.m. PST |
The only ~Large~ scale airborne assault by SS troops was the raid at Drvar on the headquarters of Yugoslav Partisan leader Tito in the spring of 1944.
Carried out by SS FallschrimJager Battallion 500 (partially a Penal unit). The unit at that time wore standard M43 tunic with BeVo SS runes, field gray colored Fallschrimjager helmet, M42 trousers w/seam pocket, Brown jump boots, and ARMY SPLINTER Patterned jump smock.
Noted, a few smaller unit actions are recorded with Battalion 500 utilizing the same field gear until the end of the war. HOWEVER……….. The existence of SS paratroop jump smocks made in the '44 "Pea Dot" pattern have been a matter of controversy amongst historians and collectors. Examples DO EXIST, and are believed to have been produced at Dachau clothing storage facilities at the end of the war.
Some smocks were supposedly imported to the U.S.A., and some were left in Europe. (The Bavarian War Museum currently has two).
Examples are maed of Herringbone twill printed in the "Pea" pattern camouflage and are dated "1943". Some have the embroidered Grey-on-Black SS eagle on the left sleeve, and some on the right sleeve (Luftwaffe style).
There is also archived schematic drawings by Christa Hook which are identical to the Luftwaffe design.
There is also futher existence of "Pea Dot" pattern trousers similar to the Luftwaffe design. On a final note.. THERE IS NO PHOTOGRAPHIC evidence or documentation stating that the Pea Dot pattern smocks or trousers were issued and/or used combat. Reading Source: Waffen SS ~ Uniforms in colour photographs
by Andrew Steven & Peter Amodio
Europa/Militaria No. 6
Pub. The Crowood Press Ltd. 2003
ISBN 1-86126-459-3 |
