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"Base paint scheme for 2DB GM 1945-46" Topic

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06 May 2020 9:16 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

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Prof Pate06 May 2020 4:11 a.m. PST

Good morning from Ireland

I will be painting some vehicles from Groupe Massau shipped from France to Indochina. This formation was taken directly from 2DB.

So what colour were these vehicles painted in French service? Was it the OD which they arrived in (and which was that -OD No.9/22?) to shipping? If so what colour and what is nearest paint equiv please.

Now I am well aware that paint fades and gets dirty and may even be patched. But it is the starting colour that I'm asking about.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP07 May 2020 8:38 a.m. PST

Now apologies I have no idea.

(Mind you profound ignorance has never stopped me from speaking with great authority….I was born in Waterford after all).

But dying to ask. what vehicles are you using from 2eDB to send to Indochina? What scale and above all what model manufacturer?

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP09 May 2020 3:09 a.m. PST

I am sure you are all too familiar with many a website on 2eDB (there are plenty!). It is quite remarkable just how many monochrome photos of this unit there are, from WWII. Sites will list the name of every single vehicle used, its ultimate fate etc but, if you want to seek out the real experts, it might be worth posting votre question ici. If your French is only just enough to order a glass of vin rouge you might struggle with the reply, but Google translate will give a very amusing version I am sure.


The site does cover the move to Indochina, as here;


Prof Pate12 May 2020 8:30 a.m. PST

Thanks Deadhead.

My French is more reading than spoken, which makes writing an interesting spectator sport! I may well have a go.

Wrote to the Steel Masters editorial staff, but in English and they're based in Paris!

Hey ho.

I'll feedback later


Prof Pate12 May 2020 9:30 a.m. PST

Looking at a cross-section of Groupe Massu in 1/72.

So a platoon of M5A1 -Mirage models with support vehicles(jeeps, Dodge (6x6?) Heller/Esci and SHQ), an M20 SHQ

Some CKC353 GMC, and command car (Heller and SHQ)

M3 half-tracks (? PSC) and White Scout Car (Dan Taylor modelworks – also for Humber Scout Car). Not sure but possibly a couple of M8 greyhounds.

S&S for an SPAA 40mm Bofors/GMC and M8HMC.

I have a plan (****) for a Coventry A/C.

AND some figures.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP12 May 2020 11:52 a.m. PST

That sounds a great line up. So looking forward to seeing photos when they are done!

The Mirage tanks are impressive. I spent today finishing two of their M3A3s for the Liberation of Paris. Needed much photo reference and slight modification, but the kit is superb. Many a tiny piece to install! Much Effing and Blinding went into them.

M20 is hard to find. I may go for resin after all. M8 be sure to remove the 50 ring.

M3 half tracks? Is that right/ I know that by the end of WWII they could get the US version…the M3 or later. But, before that, the vast majority were M5 or M5A1 (ie with a 50 cal in the pulpit thing) designed for Lease Lend only. OK, the only difference is the front mudguards and the rounded rear angles to the superstructure…but I spent ages on an Academy conversion M3 to M5A1. PSC do the M5 half track (almost uniquely) also…might be worth checking!

Some great modelling potential in Indochine. I always think of the LVT with the howitzer turret and a home made canvas lean to screen….or any excuse to use a Chaffee. Or a half track quad 50s…I feel my next project coming on (but only after Paris August 44)

Prof Pate12 May 2020 4:14 p.m. PST

Yes those Mirage kits look 'challenging' but worth it I think. I have to say I agree the early-ish periods of Indochina and South Vietnam look very interesting.

Saw photo of unusual ARVN vehicles including Dingo with turret, an M113 w/M8 turret and an ex-Canadian 15cwt armoured troop carrier.

I think I have accidentally picked up a M3A3 instead of 2nd late M5A1. Not looking for another are you?

May commission M8/M20. I have come to love resin vehicles – well cast. Not fine cast!

Prof Pate12 May 2020 4:23 p.m. PST

Oh yes. I am no expert on US half-tracks but all the photos and listings I have found state French forces arrived with M3 variant.

I would have to go through sources again.



Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP13 May 2020 2:32 p.m. PST

I find this fascinating (I do need to get out more…heck we all do).

The M3A3 (Stuart with some Roman numeral in British service) was solely a Lend Lease effort, not good enough for US use basically. The M5 half track exactly the same and the only (obvious) difference the front mudguards and the rounded rear corners (sure, the engine, the armour plate etc…but you cannot see that).

Both seem to have been replaced by the middle of 45 in 2eDB by the M5 Stuart and kosher US half tracks…an M3 or its descendents.

Your project is really unusual and imaginative. Sounds terrific. Hope to see some pics one day.

Prof Pate16 May 2020 6:11 a.m. PST

Thanks. I love SE Asia and some friends suggested this so I'm going bonkers.

The range of stuff used by French and French Union Forces is simply amazing. All second hand for first year say up till outbreak of Korean War at which point the US suddenly changed policy on supporting French – up till then there'd been an embargo on using any new US supplied equipment or lend-lease kit.

Anyway just bought a new staff car for some SASB troops, an Austin 8HP tourer. Fun all day.

Hopefully I can get some photos one day.

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