"Fantasy WW2 - why it isn't popular?" Topic

Do you think this period attracts the wrong sort of people?

amashcroft.blogspot.com

I'm not sure what you mean.

Mostly I would imagine as WWII gamers prefer historical forces. Even the weird wars groups don't vastly change the races.

Your world is rather strangely described but from what I can infer on your blog the British (brutish) are now orcs and the German forces are now Dwarves. An interesting take on it. Are the elves French? Who are the Russians?

Anyway, the miniatures are very well done. Nice conversions and painting.

79thPA
27 Apr 2020 5:36 p.m. PST
I'm not sure what you mean.

Yeah, me too…Fantasy WW2 is one of the oldest game variants around -- an early Dragon Magazine from around 1977 or 1978 had a scenario pitting WW2 Germans against orcs and a wizard. Probably inspired by the movie Wizards. Plenty of scenarios and variants since then, including rules like Panzerfauste from Wessex Games:

link

And of course there is the SPI map-and-counters game Swords & Sorcery, in which, if you accomplished certain things, you could summon help from another realm, including the SS Wiking Division.

Here's one game write up in Dragon Magazine #15, where the players took the tabletop "Tractics" rules and added D&D monsters, and then pitted a German panzergrenadier platoon against orcs, manticores, wizards and the like.

PDF link

Wonder where the scenario with the WW2 D&D game stats is…

A friend tells a story about a memorable game in this vein. German dwarves vs British Elves. The battle is fairly even until the Brelves commit 3 Sherman's. The gerwarves clamber onto the lead tank and beat it with hammers. The GM seems the noise intolerable and the Brelves bail out.

The derwarves swarm the next 2 tanks, and the Brelves decide to spray each other with MG fire. Tank 2 clears all the enemy from tank 3. Tank 3 clears all but 1 gerwarf from tank 2.

The commander of tank 3 decides to make a job of it and fires his 75, with predictable results. Those 2 players chased one another out onto the parking lot. Tank 3 player was never heard from again.

I think it's a grand idea. I always wanted to do zombie Russians, but our local game group never really opted to try it.

LOL! Found it -- it was a Gary Gygax article but wasn't in The Dragon but in the Strategic Review Magazine, 1975:

"Sturmgeschutz and Sorcery, or How Effective is a Panzerfaust Against a Troll, Heinz?"

PDF link

:) MAGIC!

Because there is far too much real history – no time for random fantasy stuff :)

SBminisguy I own a copy of a fantasy magazine with that very article :)

I've never really seen the appeal of fantasy or wierd WW2, as Richard said, there is plenty of real history to do instead. But clearly there is a market segment that do.

I guess you could ask the same question about fantasy Napoleonics (imagiNations don't count!).

I'm a historical gamer who dabbles in fantasy and sci fi, so maybe that is why.

I've got the Graven Image WWWII 35mm figures: Germans, British, & Russians, some with post-war weapons & armor, plus zombies, vampires, & a mad scientist with his Frankenstein-type monster. I ran some convention games with them but they weren't full & my gaming group never warmed to the genre. WWII offers so many forces & theaters, so such equipment & stages of the war that Fantasy WWII has too much icing on the cake for most gamers.

I always see it as Sci-fi not Fantasy if you are going to do it for WWII.

I must admit, I've never seen the fascination with weird WW2, or Napoleonics with orcs etc. But i get that people do enjoy it. And I'm very aware that many think my Cod War and Sea Shepherd games are quite strange :)

There was an article in an issue of the International Wargamer in the early '70s about a confrontation between a Panther tank and Godzilla -- only I didn't know what Godzilla looked like, so drew in a T-Rex instead.

I liked those figs and was sorry they went out of production. I was about to acquire an Orc force.

Yeah, sorry but wwii fantasy is sorta rubbish. Just play fantasy if you want fantasy. Tolkien did the most elevated version of it by far.

Well, Flames of War is popular

Real WW2 is fascinating enough. Why do we need fantasy?
I've gamed the Bulge, D-Day, Stalingrad, and Okinawa and the real battles are good enough.

Real WW2 is fascinating enough. Why do we need fantasy?

Because it's fun to think of what a tank could do at Pelenor fields…and would a sniper with a Barret .50 mess up a Nazgul's day??

It's great to see that there is some interest out there and you are all pretty weird also, even the historical gamers :)

I'm a hystorical gamer myself, oh some 50 years!! There is a bit of a smudge on my record as sometimes I dabble on the arcane side of the hobby.

1/300th ACW Naval – Air warfare – Sci-fi – Fantasy – board games…that sort of stuff. Cod wars sound interesting…

Having now reached a ripe old age of 61 and having done my fair share of mastering plenty of serious 1/56th WW2 tanks and terrain something a little different might be worth a look to provide some fun.

I love the articles from the 70's, the idea of bashing tanks with hammers, giant scorpions being taken out with bazookas Wyvern's with orc Champions descending from the skies etc. I love the subtle variances from reality that this period offers.

I love the comments on Flames of War lol.

That's a 'whole lot of love' in a time of great tragedy. I do hope the "ODD" one of you will follow along and continue to give feedback. Stuff Nazguls they always needed a long range bullet in the brain anyway….

Some of you have asked what colour I use on my PAN-Z tanks, Panzy yellow of course….Orc Tanks are painted in Dirty Orc Green and faded human flesh.

There will be more, I'm just working on a Bren Carrion and then need to tackle the Pan-Z Four menagerie. The Pan-Z IV, Stum-ped IV and Brummbear.

I think the sort of gamer who spends hours building, reading, organising,researching and painting a factual WW2 army isn't generally speaking the sort of gamer who would then pit it against Orcs.

Because basically fantasy WWII is dumb. Not only that but it reduces one of the most important events in the history of mankind to Comic Book Status. Sort of like having Wood Elves fight the Redcoats at Saratoga or Orcs joining Picketts charge at Gettysburg. Cheers!

Lee494 -

OMG I think you may have hit on a great idea, Fantasy ACW – Imagine Picket as an ORC! The Iron Brigade as Dwarves would be so appropriate….. Lee would make a great old gnarled Orc and Grant, well lets not compare his diminutive stature, rotund body and rosy cheeks to our stumpy combatants.

Elf's as the Lousiana Tigers and big dumb Orc Ironclads pretty close to the real thing. Even the Dwarf Monitors work… Big Nobbly rivets on the turrets. The flags work well also. I mean who else could have come up with paddle wheelers as river rams.

LON a new line for you :) {BRIGADE GAMES}

Tin hat -

I have one of the most stunning WW1 Human armies on the planet and I'm eyeing it as suitable for human allies. I mean we are bound to be behind in the technologies used by the Fantasy folk aren't we? Those rhomboids will make great cannon fodder.

Two of my favourite periods, WW2 and ACW – hmmm maybe we could roll them in together, would make for more interesting uniforms and be a nice excuse to use Indians and Wood elves.

Fantasy WWII would be the Italians defeating all of the Allies. You should already have the figures.

Wolfhag

It isn't popular because it's stupid.

It just seems in rather poor taste.

It isn't popular because it's stupid.

It just seems in rather poor taste.

Hmmmm ?

Its just SI-Fi as far as I am concerned, zero interest, nothing to learn or study.

History is an interesting, war games helps with the study of history. The is no common ground between SI-FI and historic war gaming perhaps painting and I HATE PAINTING.

I am not as hostile to sci-fi or fantasy gaming as some here. I used to play Star Fleet Battles, and to this day can work myself into a laughing fit with old college friends recalling some of the twists and turns in games played 'til 4am.

And I would find a Star Wars game, or even a LOTR/Hobbit game interesting enough to be worth playing.

But not interesting enough to be worth collecting, painting, and obsessing over for years and years. There's just not enough there for me.

Its just SI-Fi as far as I am concerned … nothing to learn or study.

Yep. UshCha hits it on the nose for me.

History is an interesting, war games helps with the study of history.

Yep yep yep. There isn't enough "there" there for me to go fantasy or sci-fi as I do with military miniatures.

I am in fact absolutely obsessed with learning about military history. There is too much to understand, and I want to know it all. But I can't say the same about fantasy. My father was never drafted to fight orcs, zombies, or werewolves. My world wasn't shaped by conflict with Romulans or the Empire. None of my wargaming buddies drove AT-ATs in Iraq.

I have Russian tanks from T-26s up through T-80BMs, French tanks from Renault FTs through Leclercs, and US tanks from FT-18s through M1A2s. As well as Romanians, Italians, Brits and a few Chinese and Israelis tossed in for good measure. Some odd number of thousands of miniatures in my Ready Forces, with more stuff in the To Be Painted collection than I can reasonably expect to complete in this lifetime, and still so many on my I Want To Buy That Next list… And I'm still learning about more new and interesting stuff, more battles, more potential battles every day.

While The Hobbit and the three volume set of Lord of the Rings sits on the shelf, and never seems to grown.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

I still study history, always had, but since about '90 all I do is 6mm Sci-fi.

And I like painting my toys …

However, I think I'm a capable enough tactician to use mobile combined arms warfare in a Sci-fi ground combat game. E.g. Orks vs. Space Marines, etc., etc.

Been there … done that !

It's good and healthy to have discussion about our hobby so all your comments are very welcome.

You can still study the history and apply the realistic scenarios to a fantasy arena, no loss, I don't intend to convert traditional gamers to this new form of sorcery :)

My eyes won't do the fine painting anymore so having something I can smudge a bit works better for me and while I mastered plenty of stunning vehicles in my time I just fancy a bit of twisted reality, after all I havn't mastered anything with "catapillar" tracks YET have I?

What race do we think the Russians would be best depicted as. A fantasy version of the T-35 is a must :)

Zombie's…skeletons (Stalin would obviously be the sorceror…) or ratmen?

Doesn't 40k have the fantasy ww2 market cornered already? :p

There's apparently enough market for Napoleonic Elves for Flintloque to have had a bunch of editions, so I imagine there could be one for a WWII equivalent, but perhaps not alongside the "Weird War II" stuff?

Well, Flames of War is popular

Yes V4 can be found in the fantasy isle in most good bookstores .

Doesn't 40k have the fantasy ww2 market cornered already? :p

I'm not sure what market they cornered ? The I like paying a lot of money for silly models that are to be painted in bright shiny things market !!! LOL !!!

40k is more like science fantasy Napoleonic skirmishers.

Yes, both 40K and some of Epic rule systems are geared to shoot once, running the middle of the table and hit the enemy over the head with perfectly good ranged weapons !

SM2/TL was the worst IMO … few things had saves. It took longer to set stuff up on the board and after the first turn remove most of it !

Looked at the rules … saw it played a number of times … And decided 99% of it was not for me & my crew !

I think it has to do with aesthetics. The human-sized fantasy races don't look different enough in uniform to stand out at three feet and suspension of disbelief is too great to think tanks can't kill giants or dragons. With airplanes and subs fantasy doesn't have flying or swimming to offer as unique. Magic might play in but with off board artillery and ground attack that is covered too. Medieval fantasy has powerful beasts, colorful clothing and options for unique abilities, fantasy works there. Once guns come into play it grounds out.

I believe it was Arthur C. Clarke who said that any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic.

Once guns come into play it grounds out.

E.g. I never put close combat weapons on my Titans/Combat Walkers. You don't bring a knife to a gunfight. By the time a titan/Cbt Wlkr with any CCWpns get in range to use it. It's a burning, smoking mass …

Yes, I believe he did … I still think the internet and my GPS is magic !

Hi all couple of updates to the blog, things progress and I hope you will revisit. Silicone rubber and Urethane on the way so should be able to get some more models done.

Cheers Tony
amashcroft.blogspot.com

Well, we seem not to have solved the OP's question, but we *have* found all that abusive and rude stuff on TMP people seem to have been talking about a while ago :)( Kidding! . . Or am I? :D )

Personally, I like some Wierd WW2 items myself – Mainly speculative stuff, ike the incredibly well thought out "Operation Sealion/ Opertaion Gigant" scenario books from Battlefront for "Bolt Action". Nothing outragenously different from history, just some lucky breaks and timing of evnts to change the outcome. And yes, the germnas are still bound to lose, just with some stunning achievements on the way.

I do like the actual WWW2 rules Battlefront produce, because there were some physicists who predicted something similar actually happening with the A-Bomb. Plus which, the "super science" is at least plausible science and consistent, which is something Fantasy aims to avoid. Napoleonics, too – There is no scientific basis to French horses being so consistently poor, you know :D

Reinforcements have arrived, lucky break and just in time.

Yes just reading an early book on Rommel and the subject of the A-Bomb comes up, seems Hitler told Rommel that they have a weapon that if it's used everybody within 2 miles will be blown off their feet.

Rommel's considered opinion that they would have to stay in the war and if the weapon was used the allies would have to sue for peace. Pretty scary stuff as they also had the missile tech.

The book was published in 1950! Magic it seems was rampant in Hitler's mind….

amashcroft.blogspot.com

My first thought was "because it's stupid".
But then I started to think "What about Japanese v Lizardmen…..?"

Arguably ancients gaming actually is fantasy. There isn't enough historical information to reconstruct the formations or tactics accurately, so the whole thing is conjecture.

Japanese Samurai v's lizardmen, yes I'd be up for that. I have some samurai rabbits that are pretty cool from Eureka Miniatures, they go well with my pirate Teddy bears :)

Hope to have some more castings done this week,

1/ The Brutish Bren carrier
2/ The Brutish Covenanter (would look cool in Larva Flow Camo)

Why did I choose the Covenanter, a little used WW2 tank?
1700 built!

Because it often boiled over with cooling problems and I figure that would be a very handy feature if you want to make tea (and a very good excuse to stop and have one!)

amashcroft.blogspot.com

Hi all,

Just finished some new items – even managed to cast a bren gun in Urethane!

Drop by if you have the time, will add new photos as they come to hand

amashcroft.blogspot.com

Regards Tony