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"Frontier Miniatures?" Topic


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858 hits since 26 Mar 2020
©1994-2020 Bill Armintrout
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Dadster Supporting Member of TMP26 Mar 2020 3:55 p.m. PST

Hi,

I have seen this topic brought up several times but:

1. What became of Atlee Turner?
2. How did the line get an owner other than Atlee Turner?
3. Who has the molds and masters?
4. Does the guy with the molds and masters have the rights to produce them?
5. If the guy has the rights to produce them why doesn't he do so?
6. If he owns the rights and doesn't want to produce them why doesn't he sell to a concern that would like to continue the line?
7. Anybody know how to contact the guy with the master, molds and rights?

Thanks,

Frank

fredavner Supporting Member of TMP26 Mar 2020 4:27 p.m. PST

Long discussion on this here in 2008
A long, twisting tale with lots of answers and scenarios and colorful personalities
Unable to get u a link, but it seems the thread was started by Bill

RudyNelson26 Mar 2020 6:40 p.m. PST

I have talked to most parties involved over the past two decades. Most of the answers to your questions will depend on who you talk too.i know of at least five owners in Florida.
The rights to produce is in question again based on who you talk to.

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP26 Mar 2020 6:47 p.m. PST

LOL – Thanks have scrubbed the net – last place published seems to be out of Winter Haven Florida called Tactical Edge. Contact is jaguar@tacticaledge.com – but I think this stuff is old and no good anymore.

Sounds very interesting regarding ownership ;) Sounds like lots of potential lawsuits.

Thanks again

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP26 Mar 2020 7:06 p.m. PST

Still enjoy using quite a few of their figures in my games

Personal logo Bobgnar Supporting Member of TMP26 Mar 2020 9:02 p.m. PST

They (he) made a great range of Boxer figures. The best ever, I think, but now small as they were true 25mm.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP26 Mar 2020 9:11 p.m. PST

They must have been great figures. Dead for 20 years and gamers still are desperste to get them.

RudyNelson26 Mar 2020 9:12 p.m. PST

Tactical Edge according to the lady who gave some loose castings to sell, sold the range to her and her husband who had been an employee, I think.
After a bitter separation he got the mounds.

Personal logo Dan Cyr Supporting Member of TMP26 Mar 2020 9:40 p.m. PST

Great figures in both 15 and 25 mm. Excellent range of Mex-Am War, AWI, SYW and ACW just to mention a few.

Manged to buy a few bags at a Little Wars some years back when a vendor showed up from FL. Gave me his contact as Tactical Edge and the email above, but nothing sent to them ever was replied to.

Would love to see the figures sold again and I'm running out of time (smile) myself.

Dan

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP27 Mar 2020 2:17 a.m. PST

They're part of a great wargaming tradition--TCS terrain, Mike's Models, Command Post, Heritage, Fusilier, Squats and Scrunts…

Jcfrog Supporting Member of TMP27 Mar 2020 3:05 a.m. PST

Spmeone pools the figures, scan and 3D print. The way of the near future.
My guess is you can even do variants.

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP27 Mar 2020 5:48 a.m. PST

Rudy, do you have anymore info on the lady and her husband who took over the line?

PK Guy Brent27 Mar 2020 6:19 a.m. PST

Frontier's FPW line (25mm) was outstanding for its time.

Personal logo jsmcc91 Supporting Member of TMP27 Mar 2020 9:28 a.m. PST

I enjoy seeing Double G's posts with the FPW Frontier range. PK, I agree with you regarding the range. Hopefully someone will bring these items out from the hidden depths from where they are stored.

DinOfBattle227 Mar 2020 10:49 a.m. PST

I'm a sucker for the 15mm Frontier figures especially those for the Boxer Rebellion range. I just love them. I also use the Japanese and Russians for the 1904-1905 Russo-Japanese War.

Personal logo The Virtual Armchair General Sponsoring Member of TMP27 Mar 2020 11:07 a.m. PST

So glad to see that Dadster has started this thread!

It's not just nostalgia or morbid curiosity about wanting to know. I want some concerted effort to find and buy the molds/rights as a crowd funding project, or the like. Perhaps with enough money in the pot, the holder might be brought out into the open.

While the prospect of multiple claims to the rights--if not the molds--is potentially daunting, let's get real about that. NO ONE is going to bring suit for copyright violation for possibly tens of thousands of dollars for the few thousand the range is actually (at best) worth.

The only person that is important is the one in physical possession of the molds--if they still exist. He/she is the only person that really matters, and if a reasonable amount of money can be offered, a transfer should be possible. Find who currently holds the molds, and negotiations could begin.

I am aware that any crowd funding effort requires that investors be compensated in some fashion for their contributions, but this seems the least difficult part of the equation. Finding "The Elephant's Graveyard" looks to be the hard part.

Is there anyone among us who is/was a detective or otherwise has the skills lawfully to identify key parties in the chain of possession? Can we establish who among them are still with us and might be able to aid the search?

Again, this is not idle talk. I, myself would LOVE to have the molds and produce these ranges again, but I'm for anyone with the interest and wherewithall to get them, just so long as they turn up.

Who knows? Other ranges now lost might also be recovered in a similar fashion, particularly if Frontier can be be brought back first.

Let's get some feedback on how to make this happen and NOT the usual "Don't Bother Trying" negativism. The real negatives will make themselves known as such a project proceeds, it's overcoming the inertia that must be done first.

Genuinely Speaking,
TVAG

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP27 Mar 2020 11:59 a.m. PST

Patrick,

I am with you 100% on this. Let's get this classic line alive and rolling again. Anybody else up for giving this a shot? It could be very very exciting and fun!

RudyNelson27 Mar 2020 12:45 p.m. PST

The guy, I have not seen at any of the Florida shows. The lady with her new husband has not gone to any for several years.

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP27 Mar 2020 12:54 p.m. PST

Rudy,

Did you get any names or perhaps were the were located? Still in Winterhaven? What became of the guy that owned Tactical Edge? When I try to call the number for it – the message says it is no longer valid. Odd that sites are still up and paid for – somebody has been regging them.

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP27 Mar 2020 1:26 p.m. PST

Never mind – sites were free sites – so they are not paid for.

RudyNelson27 Mar 2020 2:10 p.m. PST

I have not seen the owner of Tactical in more than a decade. The last time I saw him, he was recovering from a motorcycle wreck that came close to killing him. That was about the time he shutdown most production. I do not remember when he closed the paint ball outdoor adventure site and the store.

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP27 Mar 2020 2:15 p.m. PST

Thanks for the info Rudy. I spoke with Doug Bohannon on the phone about an hour ago – gave him my info which he said he would pass on to the current owner.

Henry Martini27 Mar 2020 8:44 p.m. PST

Chunky, sturdy, stilted poses, just a couple of pose variants per type, over-sized muskets/rifles, and HUGE bayonets almost as long as their firearms; that was Frontier 15mm, of which I possess quite a number and still appreciate their undeniable cuteness.

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP27 Mar 2020 10:00 p.m. PST

They were. I had a huge 15mm Mex-Am War collection at one time. I loved those figures.

Master Caster Sponsoring Member of TMP28 Mar 2020 5:01 a.m. PST

I believe the genesis of the Frontier figure line began a very long time ago with Jeff Caruso and/or his brother. He knew the two original sculptors two Hispanic brothers. I used to know their names but no longer, and never met them. Jeff used to produce the figure under Pass of the North out in the dessert of the great southwest, but I don't know if he made the molds. The story goes that the brothers felt shorted and pulled the copyright(s). Not sure who shorted them, what the deal was, where they lived at the time or if anyone tried to appease them. Then other folks became involved like Modelers Mart. Doug and Tactical Edge and it sounds like others too from the above narrative. Last I knew from years ago the copyright has always been murky on this line and never cleared up. The original production molds may be totally shot by now if they can even be found. It's either the production models (figures used to make production molds) and/or the original masters or prototypes you really want to find if possible. You will need these to resurrect the line with any chance of quality success. You will need to try to find Jeff Caruso if he is still around in order to learn the names of the original sculptors who pulled the copyright(s) if they are still around. You will need to learn what went wrong and what they want monetarily speaking in order to gain clear copyright title. Be prepared to accept the fact that bringing this product line back may be impossible if you can't find all the missing pieces; creators, masters, production models and maybe the production molds. It happens all the time with countless model and figure lines. (It may be cavalier to ask what harm could be done in producing a few figures with murky copyright issues, but it has always been wise in this hobby and in my book of rules of engagement that if you want to become or stay a reputable dealer or manufacturer in this great hobby of ours and keep a clear and honest name that you stayed clear of such practices.) It was a neat product line with an attractive charm,,,,,huge hands and all. So, good luck in your quest.
Toby Barrett

Personal logo jsmcc91 Supporting Member of TMP28 Mar 2020 8:32 a.m. PST

Great points Toby. It seems like there is enough interest out there to bring the line back to life if all of the stars align.

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP28 Mar 2020 1:48 p.m. PST

I dont think they will ever align. Was making great progress til late last night. Found who I believe to be the last owner of record probably current owner. Emailed and contacted several other ways. No reply. Will give it a few more days before I throw the towel in. Too bad. He may not be interested in producing or selling….

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP29 Mar 2020 8:25 a.m. PST

Rudy,
You seem to have more knowledge about Frontier than anyone else. You said in one of your posts you knew at least 5 owners of Frontier in Florida. Other than Doug Bohannon, who did indeed sell the Frontier business who are the other owners?

You mentioned in a later post about the new owners and some lady and her new husband owning the company as well as a singular guy selling the line. Who are they?

You also said in a post from 2014 that you had picked up thousands of figures and were sorting them out for the new owners (again the lady and her husband) who is this lady? Can't pick up the trail without a name, clue or hint.

Thanks
Frank

RudyNelson29 Mar 2020 12:23 p.m. PST

Initial Al Younghaus who owned Modelers Mart but had a different name for the distributor and manufacturing side. That also cast Eagle Miniature, imported terrain, paint and published a few rules including my Indiana's, Colonels and Emirs for colonial operational scale combat.
When he retired he sold the ranges to his son John. After a few years, during which time an employee left the state in possession of a large amount of stock. Mostly Eagle and Hinton Hunt.
John sold to Doug. Doug sold to his employee and his wife.

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP29 Mar 2020 1:07 p.m. PST

Thanks Rudy.

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP29 Mar 2020 2:58 p.m. PST

I know where the Eagle US molds are. But the Frontier figures and and molds still an mystery. Waiting to hear back from someone, but not holding my breath.

jefritrout30 Mar 2020 7:17 a.m. PST

Robert Piepenbrink

If you were talking about Fusilier Miniatures out of Silver Spring MD. I know the owner who is still alive and saw the molds sitting on a shelf about 6 months ago.

Personal logo The Virtual Armchair General Sponsoring Member of TMP30 Mar 2020 10:36 a.m. PST

Everyone, Please don't let this drop!

This is the most information in one place in the long history of trying to track down Frontier, and not to go to the end--whatever it may be--would be a unnecessary failure.

IF the current holder's E-mail were available to the TMP readership, perhaps a letter writing campaign might at least prompt some reply? Letters that are POLITE and RESPECTFUL of the man (whose actual situation we do not know) requesting to know his plans for the ranges, might garner a helpful response.

Indeed, if a crowd funding project was a real prospect, and that he might be able to receive a CASH payment in full--not a payment over time arrangement--perhaps that would encourage him.

Of course, as alluded to earlier in this thread, as popular as these figures still are, the ranges cannot be priced as if they were the latest Copplestone or Perry ranges! A realistic price would be a pre-condition, but clearly, the current owner is receiving NOTHING now, so any fair price should be a significant improvement.

TVAG

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP30 Mar 2020 11:17 a.m. PST

Hello Patrick,

I am not sure that a letter writing campaign is the way to go on this. I have contacted the person who I believe is the guy – through email and primarily FB, phone numbers I found published publicly are all disconnected.

I asked if he intended to bring the line back into production and/or would he consider selling the line to a group of wargamers who would like to bring this excellent line back into production again.

Let's give it a little time and see if there is a response. That being said I do not think it appropriate to post the gentleman's email address in a public place.

Until such time as the guy replies any speculation regarding pricing, etc bear no water.

I assure and promise you should I hear anything I will keep the group informed as to any news or lack thereof.

All the best,
Frank

Robert Burke30 Mar 2020 3:43 p.m. PST

Frank-thank you for your efforts in tracking down this information.

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP31 Mar 2020 8:57 a.m. PST

In the meantime, anybody interested in bringing the old Eagle Miniatures USA range back into production? Lines include ACW, ECW, HYW, 7YW and Napoleonics.

It's for sale and begging to be bought by a wargamers collective.

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP31 Mar 2020 12:31 p.m. PST

Scratch that idea.

RudyNelson31 Mar 2020 4:19 p.m. PST

Because the costs to buy an old range , mounds, masters and equipment, it is cheaper to sponsor a modern new range. You have the master and new mounds which will be cheaper in the long run.

Another concept is to sale files of castings which can then be used by someone with a 3-D printer.

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP31 Mar 2020 6:04 p.m. PST

Thanks for or the input Rudy. Makes sense to me. I have not heard back from the guy and it's been three days, so I guess I have my answer anyway. :)

Tumbleweed Supporting Member of TMP31 Mar 2020 9:53 p.m. PST

For every new mold that is made, an old one is put on a shelf in a basement or garage, never to be seen again.

Then again, I am just as much a sucker for nostalgia as y'all. Let me know if the old Heritage 15mm molds ever surface again…

Cheers, Tumbleweed – The Viking Forge

RudyNelson01 Apr 2020 11:09 a.m. PST

Loren I see Heritage castings quite often. Mainly in the flea market. I did not know that you were still looking for them.

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP02 Apr 2020 3:42 p.m. PST

Patrick – no replies – take it away…

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