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"You may have to change your USMC TO&Es" Topic

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Legion 425 Mar 2020 8:46 a.m. PST

The USMC says "No Tanks" ! huh?


Personal logo 15mm and 28mm Fanatik Supporting Member of TMP25 Mar 2020 9:19 a.m. PST

Yeah, they're now light infantry like the 101st and 82nd AB.

Halfmanhalfsquidman25 Mar 2020 9:42 a.m. PST

Fanatik, the Marine Corps was already primarily organized as a light infantry centric organization. The change is mostly to create space inside the authorized force strength to create the "Marine Littoral Regiments" as they are being called with a focus on exercising Sea Control from expeditionary advanced bases. It is interesting to me because I think it signals a shift in Marine Corps thinking away from Joint Forcible Entry Operations as the raison d'etre for the Marine Corps to something where the Marine Corps supports the naval campaign.

Really whats old is new. I think Pete Ellis wrote a similar doctrine in the (19)20s…

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP25 Mar 2020 12:00 p.m. PST

Not knowing much about the subject, but it seems to me that they are getting back to their roots of being a highly mobile light infantry force.

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP25 Mar 2020 1:34 p.m. PST

Nyet comrade, since I'm doing proper Cold War TO&Es from the 1960s (1950s?) – 1980s.


Legion 425 Mar 2020 3:43 p.m. PST

Yes, the USMC only had 3 or 4 Tank Bns in the entire Corps.
But they will still have LAVs and Amphtracks.

The 82d has a Tank Bn, it had the M551 Sheridan. Which was air droppable, i.e LAPES[Low Altitude Parachute Extraction System]. I'm not sure if they have M551s anymore ? The 82d/US Army bought some LAVs from the USMC. About an Bns worth. As you can fit 4 LAVs on a C-17. As opposed to only 3 Army Strykers.

AFAIK is the 101's heaviest vehicle is a HMMWV. With a TOW mounted on it.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP25 Mar 2020 4:52 p.m. PST

The Sheridan went out of service over 20 years ago.

Bismarck25 Mar 2020 5:03 p.m. PST

The talk of a changing mission for the Marine Corps has been going on since Gen. Neller replaced Joe Dunford as Commandant. The intent was to return to the Corps amphibious role. Some changes had been made, but what Gen. Berger has done and his ideas seem radical and raising that old question…do we really need a Marine Corps.

If you read that article, the cuts and changes go a lot further than just deactivating tank units. It reduces number of battalions, deactivates some tiltrotor, helicopter squadrons, amtrac battalions and even artillery batteries.

I know the face of war has changed greatly, just in the past 10 to 20 years. But I just do not understand.

Love to hear any of you younger Marines and warfighters' opinions on this one. This sure ain't the Old Corps.


Legion 426 Mar 2020 6:20 a.m. PST

The Sheridan went out of service over 20 years ago.
I knew it was being phased out, in '96 link I'm have pretty they gone before they got the LAVs which was fairly recently.

According to this link, which I believe is reliable/accurate … link The M551s were basically replaced with HMMWV carrying TOWs like the 101, for AT work Plus the Javelins used by the Infantry. Both very good tank killing weapons. This happened around '96. Then the 82d got the LAVs around 2018.

Also the US Army has 10MTN which is also a Light Infantry Div. And is one of the US military's most deployed units. Plus their primary AT weapons are TOWs and Javelins, AFAIK …

The USMC with continue to use the LAV with upgrades- As the article said they will keep their Amphtracks, but reduce the numbers. Plus the will also reduce their FA units significantly …

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